And then, there were Three:

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There is no debate or argument here. I pointed out that Israel’s appointed Feasts-Festivals are also part of God’s prophetic plan and time clock. The first four of the seven were completed by Christ, and there are three remaining. I lost my notes, so I am starting from scratch again. There are prophetic implications and timing with the feasts.

Morning Dennis,

How amazing that long list. Thank you very much. As to the Feasts I agree there are 3 major ones to be fulfilled, however, it is the 3 minor ones that are very interesting too. I will post both in the Study area where we can discuss.

Marilyn.

[AdHoc]

23 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

It appears we interpret Matt. 24:40-42 different, and it is not a Rapture verse. Who was taken in the days of Noah by the flood, and who were left, eight?

Matthew 24:38-41 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, ³⁹ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ⁴⁰ Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [Emphasis mine]

I interpret the above as those who will perish (the grim reaper harvest, sheep vs. goats) and not enter the millennial reign of Christ. Destination, the Great White Throne judgment.

I hope to change your mind. I add a crucial part of the the text;

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The disciples had asked for "Signs" in verse 3. The leaves of the Fig Tree are given, which we have discussed before. It is not the Fig Tree that is in view, but the leaves. The next sign is the unbelief of the Nations of imminent universal judgment, and plunging what depths of evil still remain. The Bible does not view marriage as a state and/or legal matter. It is when you become one flesh. The "marriage" here is the sexual pairing of women with angels as was in Noah's days. The word "taken" is "airo" in the Greek. It's meaning is clear. The word "coming" is "parousia". It's root word is "presence".

This is significant because the other two Greek words used in conjunction with His "coming" are "Erchomai" meaning "arrival" and "Apokalypsis" meaning His unveiling, or His "revelation". In His journey from heaven the Lord "Arrives" twice - 1. once in the clouds where He pauses to judge the Church, and 2. once on Mount Olives. But "parousia", His "presence" is used. He will be "present" in the clouds and He will be present at Jerusalem. The "coming" ("presence") of the Lord must be the first - in the clouds because there is no feasting and mixing with angels after He sets foot on Mount Olives. The City is under siege.

So the context continues with the next sign. One Taken and One Left;

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

The word "Taken" in verse 40 is not "airo" like verse 39. It is "Paralambano" which means "taken with like one takes an old friend". Who are "old friends"? The text tells us - "YOUR Lord". It is Church members who are taken and left. Jesus is talking to four DISCIPLES when He says "YOUR". And the word "doth come" is "Erchomai" meaning "arrive". How has He arrived? The context tells us again - LIKE A THIEF. Stealthily, hidden, quiet, announced and seeking something precious.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

The House is broken up because some are gone and some are left. At this time there are three Houses: 1. Judah, 2. Israel, and 3. the House of God - the Church. Which one is broken up when the Son of Man comes. The answer is supplied by the context again:- "for such and hour as YE think not". Jesus again addresses the event as pertaining to the four DISCIPLES He is addressing. It could not be either House of Israel as they are about to be UNITED (Act.15:14-16, Matt.24:29-31). The "goodman" is the responsible member - an Elder. The "Field" is the world (Matt.13) were the harvest is white, and the "Mill" is the Church Life where all are required to bless one another with the bread of life (Eph.4).

 

King James Version (WORDsearch Edition) (WORDsearch, n.d.), Mt 24:37–44.

[AdHoc]

On 1/22/2025 at 11:28 PM, Dennis1209 said:

I do not see chastisement or punishment at the Bema Seat of Christ. All the saints will give an account of their lives. I suspect that will include all the opportunities given to us that we squandered away or said no, as well as the things we did (good and bad) after Salvation. It is not judgment, punishment, or a purgatory for further maturity until we are ripe. Loss of, or gain of rewards by fire. Once again, this is not to say I hold the correct view, but it is the one I believe in. Interesting discussions; thank you for your input; discussing our views is always a pleasure.

In the parables of the kingdom in mystery in Matthew 13, the enemy spoilt the field of Wheat with Tares. Tares look just like the Wheat until the harvest. Satan does not cause subterfuge by bringing opposites. He counterfeits the real thing. The doctrine of Purgatory is damnable. It denies the work of Christ and gives the honor to fire. But where dos it come from? What is the truth behind the counterfeit?

I mulled over which of ten examples i could take. I chose Luke

42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more (Lk 12:42–48).

I will at first leave this text to speak for itself with only sparse comment. You are a wise and seasoned soldier. If this was a battle plan you would examine each and every fact carefully:

1. It is about the "servants" who were "stewards" - "managers of God's affairs.
2. The work is INSIDE the Household
3. The faithful steward was made ruler "over all that He owns"
4. The unfaithful servant is the same man. It is; "But and if THAT servant ..."
5. The change of heart is the failure to be faithful to the end with a DELAY
6. The servant is a Christian. It is; "The LORD of that servant ... "
7. "Cut asunder" implies violent death
8. "Many Stripes" implies violent chastisement
9. Lack of knowledge of God's will is no excuse. The ignorant was beaten too
10. According to the Law of stripes, they are for Chastisement of a BROTHER (Deut.25:3) and were LIMITED. According to Hebrews 12 Chastisement is to "produce the peacable fruits of RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Heb.12:11)

If I was presented with this threat I would expect loss of rulership in God's Kingdom, violent retribution, a change of values and a beating, When this had the desired effect I would still be a servant but without authority. Even after severe chastisement the servant is still called a servant. The servant was a Christian for it says  "His Lord".

Thanks for the exchange. Go well.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

I hope to change your mind. I add a crucial part of the the text;

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The disciples had asked for "Signs" in verse 3. The leaves of the Fig Tree are given, which we have discussed before. It is not the Fig Tree that is in view, but the leaves. The next sign is the unbelief of the Nations of imminent universal judgment, and plunging what depths of evil still remain. The Bible does not view marriage as a state and/or legal matter. It is when you become one flesh. The "marriage" here is the sexual pairing of women with angels as was in Noah's days. The word "taken" is "airo" in the Greek. It's meaning is clear. The word "coming" is "parousia". It's root word is "presence".

This is significant because the other two Greek words used in conjunction with His "coming" are "Erchomai" meaning "arrival" and "Apokalypsis" meaning His unveiling, or His "revelation". In His journey from heaven the Lord "Arrives" twice - 1. once in the clouds where He pauses to judge the Church, and 2. once on Mount Olives. But "parousia", His "presence" is used. He will be "present" in the clouds and He will be present at Jerusalem. The "coming" ("presence") of the Lord must be the first - in the clouds because there is no feasting and mixing with angels after He sets foot on Mount Olives. The City is under siege.

So the context continues with the next sign. One Taken and One Left;

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

The word "Taken" in verse 40 is not "airo" like verse 39. It is "Paralambano" which means "taken with like one takes an old friend". Who are "old friends"? The text tells us - "YOUR Lord". It is Church members who are taken and left. Jesus is talking to four DISCIPLES when He says "YOUR". And the word "doth come" is "Erchomai" meaning "arrive". How has He arrived? The context tells us again - LIKE A THIEF. Stealthily, hidden, quiet, announced and seeking something precious.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

The House is broken up because some are gone and some are left. At this time there are three Houses: 1. Judah, 2. Israel, and 3. the House of God - the Church. Which one is broken up when the Son of Man comes. The answer is supplied by the context again:- "for such and hour as YE think not". Jesus again addresses the event as pertaining to the four DISCIPLES He is addressing. It could not be either House of Israel as they are about to be UNITED (Act.15:14-16, Matt.24:29-31). The "goodman" is the responsible member - an Elder. The "Field" is the world (Matt.13) were the harvest is white, and the "Mill" is the Church Life where all are required to bless one another with the bread of life (Eph.4).

 

King James Version (WORDsearch Edition) (WORDsearch, n.d.), Mt 24:37–44.

There is a lot to sort through here. Thus far, studying half a dozen lexicons of the word taken from Matthew 24:40, 41, I do not have a leg to stand on. I will need to get back to you. It looks like I may be ingesting a pile of humble pie. No excuse, but I think I need to give less weight to some scholastic commentaries. 

Before I raise the white flag, I should study some more and reevaluate how I arrived at my exegesis. Thanks again for your efforts and input.

[AdHoc]

20 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

There is a lot to sort through here. Thus far, studying half a dozen lexicons of the word taken from Matthew 24:40, 41, I do not have a leg to stand on. I will need to get back to you. It looks like I may be ingesting a pile of humble pie. No excuse, but I think I need to give less weight to some scholastic commentaries. 

Before I raise the white flag, I should study some more and reevaluate how I arrived at my exegesis. Thanks again for your efforts and input.

I salute you for your level response. No humble pie. We are all on a journey with the greatest mind of the universe - by far. We learn something every day. Did you ever wonder why the Lord gave the unused talent to the faithful servant? So that he could continue doing in the millennium what he did in the Church. You are in the high school of kingship. Hopefully you will be made ruler over at least one city. There are going to be a bunch of heathen in that city. No doubt you will declare Bible study as compulsory, and use all the talent you have to teach them about our great Savior.

On this Forum we learn - sometimes how not to be a Christlike Believer, and sometimes what is needed. The Holy Spirit is our ultimate teacher. The rest are earthen vessels with treasure in them. Nobody has anything that was not given to them. No one can claim fame.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There is a lot to sort through here. Thus far, studying half a dozen lexicons of the word taken from Matthew 24:40, 41, I do not have a leg to stand on. I will need to get back to you. It looks like I may be ingesting a pile of humble pie. No excuse, but I think I need to give less weight to some scholastic commentaries. 

Before I raise the white flag, I should study some more and reevaluate how I arrived at my exegesis. Thanks again for your efforts and input.

Hi Dennis,

Don`t eat that pie yet or you may choke.

3880 paralambano

Strong`s lexicon. Paralambano: to take to receive, to take along, to accept.

Usage: The verb is used in the NT to describe the act of taking or receiving something or someone, often with the implication of taking along or accompanying.

It can denote a physical taking such as taking someone with you, or a more abstract receiving such as accepting teachings or traditions.

3880 paralambano from

3844 para from close-alongside

And 2983 lambao, aggressively take – to take (receive) by showing strong personal initiative.

`. to take to – to take with oneself, to join oneself.

Matt. 24: 40 & Luke 17: 34- 36 one to be led off as a prisoner.

 

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Matt. 24: 40 & Luke 17: 34- 36 one to be led off as a prisoner.

Cc @Dennis1209

There you are. Even Marilyn agrees. What better description of the rapture can there be. We have neither part, nor power nor say when we are "snatched away" (harpazo) like prisoners. So also Joseph. He "took" Mary to be wife and he "took" with Mary to Egypt - "paralambano" in both cases.

[Dennis1209]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

Don`t eat that pie yet or you may choke.

3880 paralambano

Strong`s lexicon. Paralambano: to take to receive, to take along, to accept.

Usage: The verb is used in the NT to describe the act of taking or receiving something or someone, often with the implication of taking along or accompanying.

It can denote a physical taking such as taking someone with you, or a more abstract receiving such as accepting teachings or traditions.

3880 paralambano from

3844 para from close-alongside

And 2983 lambao, aggressively take – to take (receive) by showing strong personal initiative.

`. to take to – to take with oneself, to join oneself.

Matt. 24: 40 & Luke 17: 34- 36 one to be led off as a prisoner.

 

Top of the morning to you, Marilyn, or, if you are South of the equator, bottom of the morning to you, LOL.

I have exhausted my study on the word “Taken” (paralambano) in Luke 17:34-36 and Matt. 24:40, 41 and elsewhere with several lexicons (LTW, Strong’s, TDNTA, BDAG, DBL Greek, EDNT, and more, and with other Biblical passages. It cannot be distinguished which of the two are taken by the word alone.

@AdHoc makes a strong case for his view, and I will not discount his wisdom and exegesis. However, I do not like eating crow or unbaked humble pie, LOL. Therefore, for the time being, I will stick with my original thoughts until the cows come home. I have no cows so that it may be a while.

From what I can tell, the two camps of thought are equally divided on who the one left is.

For your boredom, I have inserted some of my notes:

17:34–36 Jesus stated that some will be taken into judgment. In some parts of the world it will be nighttime (people will be in … bed); in other parts it will be daytime (people will be doing daily tasks, such as grinding grain). The taking away means taken into judgment, not taken up in the Rapture. The ones left are those who will enter into the kingdom. (Some mss. add the words of v. 36, “Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.” Most likely the verse was inserted to harmonize this passage with Matt. 24:40.)¹¹ John A. Martin, “Luke,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, vol. 2 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 249.

I can hear someone saying to me, “Well, preacher, you have finally painted yourself into a corner. You said the church and the Rapture are not in the Olivet Discourse, but here they are. Two shall be in the field; one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.”

Well, my friend, He still is not talking about the Rapture. After all, what is our Lord talking about here? “As the days of Noe were.” Who was taken away in the days of Noah? “They knew not until the flood came, and took them all away.” They perished in the Flood. This is not referring to the Rapture when the church will be taken out of the world. Rather, this pictures the removing from the earth by judgment those who are not going to enter the millennial Kingdom.¹

¹ McGee, J. Vernon. 1991. Thru the Bible Commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 14-28). Electronic ed. Vol. 35. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Matthew 25:32) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matthew 25:33)

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken away in judgment, the other will be left to enter the Millennium. Two women will be grinding at the mill; they will be instantly separated. One will be swept away by the flood of judgment; the other left to enjoy the blessings of Christ’s reign. (Vv. 40 and 41 are often used as a warning to the unsaved, in reference to the Rapture—the first phase of Christ’s coming when He takes all believers to heaven and leaves all unbelievers behind for judgment. While that might be a valid application of the passage, the context makes it clear that the interpretation has to do with Christ’s coming to reign.)¹¹ MacDonald, W. (1995). Believer’s Bible Commentary: Old and New Testaments (A. Farstad, Ed.; p. 1297). Thomas Nelson.

Excellent video: Deleted per TOS

Verses 40 and 41 are tied into verse 39. Based on verse 39, that can mean ONLY that those who are taken away are taken away in judgment. They are the unrighteous ones. And who is left? Well, I will ask you a question, who was left alive in Noah’s time? It was the righteous ones, and they inherited the cleansed earth, the redeemed ones of the Lord.

So shall it be at the end of the Second Coming. The wicked are taken away, judged, and the righteous ones are left to inherit the cleansed earth under the reign of the King Messiah in the Millennial Kingdom. It is so simple that I wonder how people can’t see it. This is the Second Coming, not Rapture.

In other words, the wicked and non-believers, those that did not repent, will all be killed off. Only the righteous and believers will be allowed to enter the millennium. 

 

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Cc @Dennis1209

There you are. Even Marilyn agrees. What better description of the rapture can there be. We have neither part, nor power nor say when we are "snatched away" (harpazo) like prisoners. So also Joseph. He "took" Mary to be wife and he "took" with Mary to Egypt - "paralambano" in both cases.

I do not agree Ad Hoc, as you well know. Please don`t twist my words. Now Joseph did not take Mary a prisoner. 

And (again) you are mixing up the Body of Christ and Israel. The revelation of the Body of Christ by the ascended Lord, was FIRST to Paul. The disciples did not know of the New Man but were constantly looking to the Lord to rule through Israel over the nations.

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Top of the morning to you, Marilyn, or, if you are South of the equator, bottom of the morning to you, LOL.

I have exhausted my study on the word “Taken” (paralambano) in Luke 17:34-36 and Matt. 24:40, 41 and elsewhere with several lexicons (LTW, Strong’s, TDNTA, BDAG, DBL Greek, EDNT, and more, and with other Biblical passages. It cannot be distinguished which of the two are taken by the word alone.

@AdHoc makes a strong case for his view, and I will not discount his wisdom and exegesis. However, I do not like eating crow or unbaked humble pie, LOL. Therefore, for the time being, I will stick with my original thoughts until the cows come home. I have no cows so that it may be a while.

From what I can tell, the two camps of thought are equally divided on who the one left is.

For your boredom, I have inserted some of my notes:

17:34–36 Jesus stated that some will be taken into judgment. In some parts of the world it will be nighttime (people will be in … bed); in other parts it will be daytime (people will be doing daily tasks, such as grinding grain). The taking away means taken into judgment, not taken up in the Rapture. The ones left are those who will enter into the kingdom. (Some mss. add the words of v. 36, “Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.” Most likely the verse was inserted to harmonize this passage with Matt. 24:40.)¹¹ John A. Martin, “Luke,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, vol. 2 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 249.

I can hear someone saying to me, “Well, preacher, you have finally painted yourself into a corner. You said the church and the Rapture are not in the Olivet Discourse, but here they are. Two shall be in the field; one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.”

Well, my friend, He still is not talking about the Rapture. After all, what is our Lord talking about here? “As the days of Noe were.” Who was taken away in the days of Noah? “They knew not until the flood came, and took them all away.” They perished in the Flood. This is not referring to the Rapture when the church will be taken out of the world. Rather, this pictures the removing from the earth by judgment those who are not going to enter the millennial Kingdom.¹

¹ McGee, J. Vernon. 1991. Thru the Bible Commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 14-28). Electronic ed. Vol. 35. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Matthew 25:32) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matthew 25:33)

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken away in judgment, the other will be left to enter the Millennium. Two women will be grinding at the mill; they will be instantly separated. One will be swept away by the flood of judgment; the other left to enjoy the blessings of Christ’s reign. (Vv. 40 and 41 are often used as a warning to the unsaved, in reference to the Rapture—the first phase of Christ’s coming when He takes all believers to heaven and leaves all unbelievers behind for judgment. While that might be a valid application of the passage, the context makes it clear that the interpretation has to do with Christ’s coming to reign.)¹¹ MacDonald, W. (1995). Believer’s Bible Commentary: Old and New Testaments (A. Farstad, Ed.; p. 1297). Thomas Nelson.

Excellent video: Deleted per TOS

Verses 40 and 41 are tied into verse 39. Based on verse 39, that can mean ONLY that those who are taken away are taken away in judgment. They are the unrighteous ones. And who is left? Well, I will ask you a question, who was left alive in Noah’s time? It was the righteous ones, and they inherited the cleansed earth, the redeemed ones of the Lord.

So shall it be at the end of the Second Coming. The wicked are taken away, judged, and the righteous ones are left to inherit the cleansed earth under the reign of the King Messiah in the Millennial Kingdom. It is so simple that I wonder how people can’t see it. This is the Second Coming, not Rapture.

In other words, the wicked and non-believers, those that did not repent, will all be killed off. Only the righteous and believers will be allowed to enter the millennium. 

 

The gentlemen whose names you supplied have not done you any favors. A cursory study of the methods for killing off men is war, pestilence and earthquake. The survivors of the attack on Jerusalem are not killed off but must go up to Jerusalem annually to worship Emmanuel (Zech.14:16). The judgment of the sheep and the goats is for the LIVING after Jesus sets up His "Throne of Glory". The sheep and the goats BOTH are "ALL NATIONS" - not the Church. They are judged on how they treated the "least of Christ's brethren" during the Great Tribulation. They are ALL UNBELIEVERS.

But I have a question. The one "TAKEN" in judgment (killed off) is suddenly taken on a journey. They have no chance. Why "THEREFORE" must they "WATCH" for THEIR LORD (v.42)?

If the wicked are taken in an instant and "killed off", who are the enemies that Christ must subdue for 1,000 years (1st Cor.15:24-26)?