Friday noonish crucifixion to Sunday morning resurrection – 3 days?

[Anne2]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Does dawn mean early morning?

There was a night watch called the morning watch. I don't know if that is referenced here. Though one of the gospels mentioned it was yet dark?

Edited February 2 by Anne2

[BlindSeeker]

10 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Does dawn mean early morning?

: the first appearance of light in the morning followed by sunrise.

........According to Wikipedia, dawn is the time of day when twilight begins before sunrise. It is marked by the appearance of indirect sunlight scattering in the Earth's atmosphere. 

Scientific meaning 

Dawn is when the Sun's center is 18° below the horizon.

Dawn is when the Sun is 6° below the horizon.

Other meanings

Dawn chorus: The start of birdsong in the morning. 

 

I already presented in scripture the Greek word and how it was used twice in scriptures. I is not referencing "dawn" in that sense. However, there are other aspects of the verse which serve to confirm this time frame.

In Matt 28:1 when it says "In the end <opse> of the sabbath," supports this. That Greek word is only used 3 times in scripture.

Matt 28:1 - In the end of the sabbath <opse>, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

 Mark 11:19 - And when even <opse> was come, he went out of the city.

 Mark 13:35 - Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even <opse>,  or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning.

<opse> - (through the idea of backwardness, backend); (adverbially) late in the day; by extension, after the close of the day (time): --(at) even, in the end.

In Mark 13:35, Jesus really clarifies this time through His presentation of the progression of time, “at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing in the morning.” The time referenced by use of the word <opse> is just around sunset, it is not dawn or sunrise.

Also, the phrase in Matt 28:1, “it began to dawn toward the first day of the week” implies direction or heading.

Young's Literal Translation states the same thing - And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

This is curious language to most, i.e., “eve of the sabbaths <sabbaton>” and “first of the sabbaths <sabbaton>” for while the word is used specifically for the seventh day Sabbath, it is also used to refer to the 7 day duration between weekly sabbath,” from “even to even” which both ends a day and introduces the next. This is not always 6pm but determined by the daily setting of the sun.

Therefore, Young is correct in the presentation of the “eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn toward the first of the sabbaths” for both point to sunset, not sunrise.

 

[Anne2]

8 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

I already presented in scripture the Greek word and how it was used twice in scriptures. I is not referencing "dawn" in that sense. However, there are other aspects of the verse which serve to confirm this time frame.

In Matt 28:1 when it says "In the end <opse> of the sabbath," supports this. That Greek word is only used 3 times in scripture.

Matt 28:1 - In the end of the sabbath <opse>, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

 Mark 11:19 - And when even <opse> was come, he went out of the city.

 Mark 13:35 - Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even <opse>,  or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning.

<opse> - (through the idea of backwardness, backend); (adverbially) late in the day; by extension, after the close of the day (time): --(at) even, in the end.

In Mark 13:35, Jesus really clarifies this time through His presentation of the progression of time, “at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing in the morning.” The time referenced by use of the word <opse> is just around sunset, it is not dawn or sunrise.

Also, the phrase in Matt 28:1, “it began to dawn toward the first day of the week” implies direction or heading.

Young's Literal Translation states the same thing - And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

This is curious language to most, i.e., “eve of the sabbaths <sabbaton>” and “first of the sabbaths <sabbaton>” for while the word is used specifically for the seventh day Sabbath, it is also used to refer to the 7 day duration between weekly sabbath,” from “even to even” which both ends a day and introduces the next. This is not always 6pm but determined by the daily setting of the sun.

Therefore, Young is correct in the presentation of the “eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn toward the first of the sabbaths” for both point to sunset, not sunrise.

 

Maybe of interest...The word used in the old testament greek is week. The Saducees and pharisees disagreed over the meaning of the "morrow of the sabbath" in leviticus 23 . This day was in dispute before Christ was born. Ironically, it was the Pharisees that used the Greek scripture to refute the Sadducees, on the understanding of the sabbath to be week, weeks. Now today Christians appear to be doing the same thing.

Edited February 2 by Anne2

[Ray12614]

23 hours ago, PATrobas said:

Take a look at the link. He does a really good job of describing the three day Sabbath and charting the whole thing out. Basically High day sabbath Thurs and Friday and regular weekly sabbath Saturday.

Again, the three days are thurs. fri. and sat. He was risen after the three days had passed.

 

Closer. There were 'high holy sabbaths' (In this case Passover starting on Wednesday PM) and weekly sabbaths (beginning Friday PM). The first page has the most accurate replies to this question by PATrobas and Tristen. Friday crucifixion is an church tradition  because they did not consider the Passover as an high sabbath.

This topic (which is very interesting) is usually only raised by those who want to disprove the trustworthiness of scriptures so it is good to have an answer on this topic.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Anne2 said:

All I am saying is the various ways they counted a day. I quoted Chabad. the night they ate the passover was considered the 14th day because of the sacrifices. The passover sacrifice belonged to the fourteenth day all night until the morning, when a sacrifice was brought for the first day of unleavened bread. A day in the month would have made that night the beginning of the 15th day, but was considered still the 14th by them. The best way I can say it is, a liturgical day (temple ministry) was continually from morning to evening, everyday of the year.

Okay - Yes. One of the problems with the evening to evening day for the Passover was the nailing to the cross only at 9 a.m. But this problem goes away when we consider the price paid by our Lord Jesus. Matthew 10:28 says that the price for sins is 1. death at the hand of God, and 2. the death of the soul. This Second Death was to be much more feared than mere physical death. And so, already in the Garden of Gethsemane our Lord sweated blood and cried out "My SOUL is sorrowful UNTO DEATH ... " 

That which is to be feared came first - in the evening, and lasted till our Lord gave up His spirit at 3 p.m.

As to the daily oblation, that was a sacrifice morning and evening. But it needed an altar, and thus the Temple.

[Anne2]

33 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Okay - Yes. One of the problems with the evening to evening day for the Passover was the nailing to the cross only at 9 a.m. But this problem goes away when we consider the price paid by our Lord Jesus. Matthew 10:28 says that the price for sins is 1. death at the hand of God, and 2. the death of the soul. This Second Death was to be much more feared than mere physical death. And so, already in the Garden of Gethsemane our Lord sweated blood and cried out "My SOUL is sorrowful UNTO DEATH ... " 

That which is to be feared came first - in the evening, and lasted till our Lord gave up His spirit at 3 p.m.

As to the daily oblation, that was a sacrifice morning and evening. But it needed an altar, and thus the Temple.

Well, the festival offerings were brought in the morning. They probably ate in the evening..

Another interesting thing I found in Josephus. concerns the goat for sin. every day for days of unleavened bread. He said these (goats for sin) were added to all the rest (of the sacrifices) intending for a "feast" for the priests, on every one of those days.

Numb 28:17  And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18  In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:
19  But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish:
20  And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;
21  A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
22  And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.
23  Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering.
24  After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
Is this what was going on here?

Joh 18:28  Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover

Lev 6:25  Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.
26  The priest that offereth it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.
27  Whatsoever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof upon any garment, thou shalt wash that whereon it was sprinkled in the holy place.
28  But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brasen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.
29  All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.
 

Edited February 2 by Anne2

[BlindSeeker]

How many sacrifices offered by the priests, morning or evening, were resurrected? 

[Anne2]

3 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

How many sacrifices offered by the priests, morning or evening, were resurrected? 

One

john 11:49  And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50  Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51  And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
 

which all the priests in Christ partake of.

[AdHoc]

19 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Well, the festival offerings were brought in the morning. They probably ate in the evening..

Another interesting thing I found in Josephus. concerns the goat for sin. every day for days of unleavened bread. He said these were added to all the rest intending for a "feast" for the priests, on every one of those days.

Numb 28:17  And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18  In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:
19  But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish:
20  And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;
21  A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
22  And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.
23  Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering.
24  After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
Is this what was going on here?

Joh 18:28  Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover

Lev 6:25  Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.
26  The priest that offereth it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.
27  Whatsoever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof upon any garment, thou shalt wash that whereon it was sprinkled in the holy place.
28  But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brasen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.
29  All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.
 

Amen! The Feast of Unleavened Bread was full of meaningful ritual. But the Passover most of all;

6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening (Ex.12:6).

[Your closest friendnt]

On 2/2/2025 at 10:17 AM, Anne2 said:

All I am saying is the various ways they counted a day. I quoted Chabad. the night they ate the passover was considered the 14th day because of the sacrifices. The passover sacrifice belonged to the fourteenth day all night until the morning, when a sacrifice was brought for the first day of unleavened bread. A day in the month would have made that night the beginning of the 15th day, but was considered still the 14th by them. The best way I can say it is, a liturgical day (temple ministry) was continually from morning to evening, everyday of the year.

   The passover day the 14th of Nissan is a 24 hour period and the first 12 hour is night as the day starts at sunset which in Jerusalem is at 6:00 pm. 

From 6:00 pm to about 37 minutes it is light, the light after the sunset which it belongs the 14th. 

This is how the 14th day starts. This is when they slaughter the passover lamb at the beginning of the 14th while it was still light after the sunset. And they cook it and have their passover supper.