Works/Fruit?

[Ovedya]

fruit is different than salvation, fruit is different than Faith. Although Faith is a component of the fruit.

Look at that word...it is one fruit, many different parts that make up that fruit.

A branch bears fruit after it's own kind (That is, after the tree's own kind) according to the life supply from the tree. A branch that is receiving a full supply from the tree will bear much fruit. A branch that is not receiving the full supply of the tree will not bear fruit.

As branches of the vine (Christ) our fruit bearing (works) is dependent upon the amount of supply (That is the supply of the divine life) we receive from the vine. A believer who is fully engaged with gaining Christ is supplied with the divine life, and produces fruits according to his measure of faith. Any works apart from the vine are simply products of the flesh and are not profitable for the kingdom; even if those works are deemed "good" in man's eyes.

I agree. May I add the Word?

John 15:1-8

The True Vine

[Kansasdad]

I think some times our works produces fruits and we can look to the fruit to evaluate the works. Let me give you an example. We have had a local church that just went through a major upheaval. Half of the congregation was upset with the pastor. ( I don't know what all the issues are) They eventually met and half of the congregation has left and are now meeting as their own new church. Some of this new group could argue that their works were pure and out of love for God, yet their fruit is that some people have just stopped going at all. The remaining church could die completely. The new church may thrive but then wither as the emotions die down. The fruits of this work do not look very Godly, so maybe the works were not Gods will in the first place.

God Bless,

K.D.

[dgolvach]

I hear the debate between good works and faith quite a bit. What I never hear is a decription of what "good works" actually are. I will put forth this possibility. Good works are a natural expression inspired by the Holy Spirt that is a result of a already established relationship between God and yourself. I suppose things like giving, loving, tithing, helping or praying are all good works. But if they are being done for the purpose of getting you in a good relationship with God, they are pride and idolatry. Jesus's work on the cross alone is what gets us in a good relationship with God. I am really having to learn to breath in this truth these days. Out of that relationship which allows us to get fed and loved by God should come the natural urge to want to do things to show him your love. These things might not always be seen by other Christians but God knows. Do good works save us? In my opinion ...no. But if we walk with God I don't see how they are avoidable. They might not be visible or even as big as others but we probably shouldn't compare ourselves to other Christians and their works as a measurement of how much God loves and cares for us as his children because making these comparisions is probably born out of pride. I have seen Christians on TV try to manipulate others into doing things by putting this kind of guilt trip on them. ("are you doing this or that" sorta thing) God dosent NEED anything from me. I do love him though and because of my new understanding of how forgiving, nurturing and tender he is towards me, I want to express my love for him because I am in love with him. I suppose this expression is a work of sorts. Hopefully one that God dosent burn off as human pride in the end.

Dan

[jehovah Nissi]

I hear the debate between good works and faith quite a bit. What I never hear is a dicription of what "good works" actually are. I will put forth this possibility. Good works are a natural expression inspired by the Holy Spirt that is a result of a already established relationship between God and yourself. I suppose things like giving, loving, tithing, helping or praying are all good works. But if they are being done for the purpose of getting you in a good relationship with God, they are pride and idolatry. Jesus's work on the cross alone is what gets us in a good relationship with God. I am really having to learn to breath in this truth these days. Out of that relationship which allows us to get fed and loved by God should come the natural urge to want to do things to show him your love. These things might not always be seen by other Christians but God knows. Do good works save us? In my opinion ...no. But if we walk with God I don't see how they are avoidable. They might not be visible or even as big as others but we probably shouldn't compare ourselves to other Christians and their works as a measurement of how much God loves and cares for us as his children because making these comparisions is probably born out of pride. I have seen Christians try to manipulate others into doing things by putting this kind of guilt trip on them. ("are you doing this or that" sorta thing) God dosent NEED anything from me. I do love him though and because of my new understanding of how forgiving, nurturing and tender he is towards me. I want to express my love for him because I am in love with him. I suppose this expression is a work of sorts. Hopefully one that God dosent burn off in the end.

Dan

it is all about the love relationship with the Lord causes you to do good works and walking in His ways by faith.

[tah]

I just read a great thread this morning..I believe you will be blessed from page 1..

I was going to print it out but it was 63 pages long..yikes...

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...ost&p=43315

[tsth]

Dear Dan,

I believe that the good works we speak of, are the things born out of the Truth of Jesus. In other words, it's the things that we KNOW are loving, caring, right, honest, TRUTH. It's caring for our children the way that we should. It's providing for those around us, in the manner that Jesus would want us to. It's doing what we know is the right thing to do in our hearts, based upon what the Lord has told us in His Word. It's doing the right thing, even when it is difficult, because we believe and know that God is a Righteous Judge, and is of TRUTH. These things are done because they are the right things to do, and we no longer try to "justify" doing evil, or justify "not doing good", when we know we should. We walk in truth, because we are yielding to the Spirit of God, and not the flesh. Even when it is difficult.

I was actually considering this too, this morning, as I read the following:

Romans 2

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." 25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker. 28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

It's how we live, every day.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[stan4257]

I hear the debate between good works and faith quite a bit. What I never hear is a decription of what "good works" actually are. I will put forth this possibility. Good works are a natural expression inspired by the Holy Spirt that is a result of a already established relationship between God and yourself. I suppose things like giving, loving, tithing, helping or praying are all good works. But if they are being done for the purpose of getting you in a good relationship with God, they are pride and idolatry. Jesus's work on the cross alone is what gets us in a good relationship with God. I am really having to learn to breath in this truth these days. Out of that relationship which allows us to get fed and loved by God should come the natural urge to want to do things to show him your love. These things might not always be seen by other Christians but God knows. Do good works save us? In my opinion ...no. But if we walk with God I don't see how they are avoidable. They might not be visible or even as big as others but we probably shouldn't compare ourselves to other Christians and their works as a measurement of how much God loves and cares for us as his children because making these comparisions is probably born out of pride. I have seen Christians try to manipulate others into doing things by putting this kind of guilt trip on them. ("are you doing this or that" sorta thing) God dosent NEED anything from me. I do love him though and because of my new understanding of how forgiving, nurturing and tender he is towards me, I want to express my love for him because I am in love with him. I suppose this expression is a work of sorts. Hopefully one that God dosent burn off as human pride in the end.

Dan

Perfectly explained.

For me it is obeying the second of the two commandments of Jesus Christ, which is like unto the first, that we (paraphrasing) do for others in need what we would hope others would do for us if we were the person in need.

Which comes to the same thing that you have explained.

Thank you.

[Guest Greg Davies]

Good works are anything done based upon faith toward God and in harmony with the Word of God.

[tsth]

I just read a great thread this morning..I believe you will be blessed from page 1..

I was going to print it out but it was 63 pages long..yikes...

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...ost&p=43315

Yikes! That would be a lot of printing! But, FYI, the thread itself is only 12 pages, it just prints out to 63, I guess?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[dgolvach]

Suzanne...I second your statement "I believe that the good works we speak of, are the things born out of the Truth of Jesus."

Jesus loves us bigtime.

God Bless

Dan