Christ's kingdom will never be physically on this earth

[Luther]

11 minutes ago, tatwo said:

As you wish...but I suggest that a hungry growing brother like you...should look into this more. You may find that the Kingdom of God came to earth fully indwelling God manifest in the flesh for the first time at His baptism with John. With maybe an exception for 10 days between His ascension and the outpouring on the subsequent Pentecost.

His Kingdom has been here on the earth since...it is spiritual and His people are in it right here on the earth...right now. You should dig into that bro. Luther...the God and Father of all creation is dwelling in His temple on the earth and in the heavens. I agree this world is not our "ultimate" home.

Agreed...Christians often forget that our Lord King Yahshua flatly rejected the dragon's offer to rule "all the kingdoms of the world." Additionally He told Pontus Pilate..."my Kingdom is neither of this world nor this realm" if it were He said...My people would be fighting the Jews for my release...Christ is never apart from His Kingdom Luther...and it is not of this world...any alliance with the kingdoms of the world are in fact unholy.

Sure and I agree...zionism..."not the Jew" is a satanic cancer...don't let it bother you bro...it must go this way.

This administrations claim to MAGA...already looks like..."NOT"...and the underlying current of the "global capitalist oligarchy" the "broligarchy" as I call them...those who are driving "Dark MAGA" who are actually pushing their gig with EM at the helm...have entirely and completely different plans for the "United States Corporation" and its American workforce...and largely they have and are paying for it. Think along the lines of Proletariat and bourgeois...owners and slaves...I am not saying they will be successful...however even if they do fail...big change is here and coming on strong at an accelerated pace...again it is supposed to play out like this. Be of good cheer...He has overcome the world!

Tatwo...:)  

You said: " Sure and I agree...zionism..."not the Jew" is a satanic cancer...don't let it bother you bro...it must go this way."

Oh it's not bothering me at all. The truth will set us free. 

Have to push back on your statement, however. Because I am pretty informed on this subject, the problem is " jewish supremacy", the central theme to the talmud.  Doesn't matter what you call it, Zionism, Communism, Judaism, Bolshevism, Socialism, Marxism, etc., it's all from the same source. 

 

[tatwo]

11 hours ago, Luther said:

Have to push back on your statement, however. Because I am pretty informed on this subject, the problem is " jewish supremacy", the central theme to the talmud.  Doesn't matter what you call it, Zionism, Communism, Judaism, Bolshevism, Socialism, Marxism, etc., it's all from the same source. 

That is true...and I agree and at the same time I have had many Jewish friends who never really treated me in that way...I was simply not wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water as they say.

Tatwo...:)

[Luther]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

That is true...and I agree and at the same time I have had many Jewish friends who never really treated me in that way...I was simply not wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water as they say.

Tatwo...:)

Agree. This is the conversation we need to have. When we say " jews", what comes to mind? Israelites? Jehudites (those of the tribe of Judah)? Those with semitic roots? Hebrew blood? The problem is, none of these descriptions apply to the " jews" of rabbinical judaism, who have a political / religious agenda to govern the world. This is what Christians are supporting, their literal enslavement. 

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

I know that my redemer lives, and He shall stand at the last day, upon the land.
Job 19:25

 

 

[AdHoc]

On 3/7/2025 at 2:31 AM, Luther said:

Luke 17:20-21 KJV

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

.............................

The kingdom of God is made up of Christians , symbolically "lively stones" and Jesus is the " living stone" ( 1 Peter 2: 3-5). We are " found in Him"  (Philippians 3:9) having the righteousness of God by His faith. We are reigning with our Lord right now           (2 Timothy 2:12, Revelation 5:10).

 As you can see, we are intimately associated with our Savior. We are what makes up His kingdom. 

Nowhere does God say He has two kingdoms, one for Christians and one for a future group of  people in a politically acquired state called Israel. No scripture like that exists. Anyone who believes that is following after a false doctrine. 

ONE KINGDOM. You must understand that the kingdom of God ( in Jesus Christ) has been in formation since the beginning of time, since men began " to call upon the name of the LORD "  (Genesis 4:26). 

The churches are being deceived by the children of the devil who want their own kingdom on this earth without Jesus Christ, the One they fear the most. They have gone to great lengths to steal the wonderful promises found in the OT regarding all in Christ, a temple being built by His "lively stones", and place themselves there....of course when all the Christians are " raptured". 

Psalm 2:6-7 KJV

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

[7] I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5,8 KJV

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

[8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

( Jesus is only setting up ONE THRONE, in heaven)

Psalm 145:10-13 KJV

All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.

[11] They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power;

[12] To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom.

[13] Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.

(There is one kingdom, for Christians, not of this world):

John 18:36 KJV

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

........................

If you are fighting for your kingdom to be set up on this earth, not only is there zero  Biblical support for that, it certainly would not be a kingdom from  God. If you are deceiving many to support you for that cause, that's even worse. 

Below is an excerpt from a book I highly recommend:

"The Bible: a literal futurist hermeneutic assessed

It has been shown that the development of a literal and futurist reading of Scripture and, in particular, the argument that Old Testament references to Israel apply to contemporary Jews and the State of Israel rather than the church, is directly attributable to Irving, Darby and those who attended the Albury and Powerscourt conferences of the 1820s and 1830s. These were given particular expression in Darby's dispensational scheme and then codified and accorded virtually canonical status in the Scofield Reference Bible. Sandeen observes that dis-pensationalism has 'a frozen biblical text in which every word was supported by the same weight of divine authority', 107 Clarence Bass goes further, insisting:

 

No part of historic Christian doctrine supports this radical distinction between church and kingdom. To be sure they are not identical; but Dispensationalism has added the idea that the kingdom was to be a restoration of Israel, not a consummation of the church."

.............................

Consummation? Absolutely:

1 Corinthians 15:23-24 KJV

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

[24] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Everyone in Christ, who makes up the kingdom of God, becomes one with the Father. And that's the end of this world. No foolish talk of a continuation of another kingdom for others besides Christians. It is done. 

Acts 19:8 KJV

And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Can't you see? Paul went to the jews to get them out of the synagogues and into the kingdom of God ( body of Christ). Did he say to them, "Don't worry, Christ will set up a kingdom on this sin cursed earth so your future people who reject my Savior will have a thousand years to get right with Him?" 

Today is the day of salvation. 

Matthew 25:34 KJV

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Luke 22:29-30 KJV

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; [30] That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

When a Christian embarks on a case to prove something he/she holds, it is normal that one deals with the arguments of the opponents. This, you have not done, rather calling them "children of the devil". So let me begin there. In the process of gaining biblical knowledge we start wit many false ideas. The Word of God calls them "babes in Christ" or "children of God". They are to grow. But the rebirth they experienced by the Holy Spirit is real. Just because a new Christian makes a mistake or is misinformed, it does not mean that his rebirth is to be attributed to the devil. To attribute the rebirth of a Christian to the devil is the unforgivable sin. In Matthew 12 the Pharisees attributed the casting out of demons to a servant of Beelzebub. The Servant (Christ) may be insult and the sin overlooked, but to attribute Beelzebub to the Holy Spirit is not to be forgiven - in this age, NOR in the next.

You are living dangerously. Best is, if you want to make your point, is to give a good solid logical and scriptural argument and et the others decide on the doctrine. So now, to doctrine.

You did not study the word "world". If you did you would have seen that the word "kosmos" in the Greek means "the adornment" or, "the orderly arrangement of things". It can mean the universe, the earth and the creature, and it can mean the present arrangement of things - the order of things. The context must tell. So when our Lord told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this WORLD He said in effect that His Kingdom did not have the arrangement of things that Caesar's did. That is, democracy, corrupt politicians, illegal favors and death. If you still maintain your position, you must explain why "GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son ... (Jn.3:16), while at the same time we are admonished "LOVE NOT THE WORLD ..." (1st Jn.2:15).

Besides this, you should have dealt with the following scriptures:
God said in Genesis 1:26-28 that His purpose with man was to RULE the Earth, Sea and Sky "and all that is in them"
God made a Contract with Abraham and his seed for a piece of Land, Canaan, for an everlasting possession
God extended Abraham and his seed' inheritance to "the WORLD" (Rom.4:13)
God promised a Kingdom that would replace Gentile rule (Dan.2:34-36)
God promised that this Kingdom would "fill the earth"
The inspired Psalmist set forth the area that man would rule in Psalm 8 and Hebrews 2 - where the cattle live
The Lord Jesus prayed to His Father that HIS Kingdom WOULD (future tense) COME (to earth)
The Lord Jesus set forth the reward for good Christians as to be KINGS of CITIES (Lk.19:17-19)
The Lord Jesus set forth the reward for Overcomers as to rule the Nations (Rev.2:27)
The inspired record says martyrs will rule with Christ
The inspired record says that Jesus was tempted with "the Kingdoms of this world" (Lk.4)
The inspired record says that these Kingdoms will become our Lord's Kingdoms (Rev.11:15)
The Apostles are promised thrones over the Tribes of Israel (on their "everlasting possession")
The inspired record says the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven
The inspired record says that the saints will rule from this city on earth (Rev,22:5)
Romans 8 says that creature groans waiting to be released into the hands of the risen saints)

For a Christian making a case against God's Kingdom ON EARTH you should have dealt with these above. Is it fair to your audience to remain silent on these weighty scriptures?

AS to your understanding of the "lively stones", why have you not explained why God's Spiritual House is made of "lively" stones. You would have gathered from John 1 and Jacob's vision of the ladder that God's House (Bethel) is built with men in resurrection, but that they must first be born again before they can but SEE the Kingdom, but to ENTER it a man must be also born out of water. You must explain why men in resurrection are raptured ONLY TO RETURN TO EARTH as Jude reports Enoch as prophesying. Then you should have explained why our Lord gave seven Parables in Matthew 13 on a Kingdom that has opposition sowers in the "field" which is the WORLD. Then you must explain why the merchant men "gave their ALL" for the WORLD?

When you have dealt with the 16 or so points above, I will have another ten for you. But I am most interested to hear from you why God was unable to fulfill His plan with an in Genesis 1:26-28. I thought He was ALL MIGHTY.

6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! (Ps 8:6–9).

[Luther]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

When a Christian embarks on a case to prove something he/she holds, it is normal that one deals with the arguments of the opponents. This, you have not done, rather calling them "children of the devil". So let me begin there. In the process of gaining biblical knowledge we start wit many false ideas. The Word of God calls them "babes in Christ" or "children of God". They are to grow. But the rebirth they experienced by the Holy Spirit is real. Just because a new Christian makes a mistake or is misinformed, it does not mean that his rebirth is to be attributed to the devil. To attribute the rebirth of a Christian to the devil is the unforgivable sin. In Matthew 12 the Pharisees attributed the casting out of demons to a servant of Beelzebub. The Servant (Christ) may be insult and the sin overlooked, but to attribute Beelzebub to the Holy Spirit is not to be forgiven - in this age, NOR in the next.

You are living dangerously. Best is, if you want to make your point, is to give a good solid logical and scriptural argument and et the others decide on the doctrine. So now, to doctrine.

You did not study the word "world". If you did you would have seen that the word "kosmos" in the Greek means "the adornment" or, "the orderly arrangement of things". It can mean the universe, the earth and the creature, and it can mean the present arrangement of things - the order of things. The context must tell. So when our Lord told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this WORLD He said in effect that His Kingdom did not have the arrangement of things that Caesar's did. That is, democracy, corrupt politicians, illegal favors and death. If you still maintain your position, you must explain why "GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son ... (Jn.3:16), while at the same time we are admonished "LOVE NOT THE WORLD ..." (1st Jn.2:15).

Besides this, you should have dealt with the following scriptures:
God said in Genesis 1:26-28 that His purpose with man was to RULE the Earth, Sea and Sky "and all that is in them"
God made a Contract with Abraham and his seed for a piece of Land, Canaan, for an everlasting possession
God extended Abraham and his seed' inheritance to "the WORLD" (Rom.4:13)
God promised a Kingdom that would replace Gentile rule (Dan.2:34-36)
God promised that this Kingdom would "fill the earth"
The inspired Psalmist set forth the area that man would rule in Psalm 8 and Hebrews 2 - where the cattle live
The Lord Jesus prayed to His Father that HIS Kingdom WOULD (future tense) COME (to earth)
The Lord Jesus set forth the reward for good Christians as to be KINGS of CITIES (Lk.19:17-19)
The Lord Jesus set forth the reward for Overcomers as to rule the Nations (Rev.2:27)
The inspired record says martyrs will rule with Christ
The inspired record says that Jesus was tempted with "the Kingdoms of this world" (Lk.4)
The inspired record says that these Kingdoms will become our Lord's Kingdoms (Rev.11:15)
The Apostles are promised thrones over the Tribes of Israel (on their "everlasting possession")
The inspired record says the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven
The inspired record says that the saints will rule from this city on earth (Rev,22:5)
Romans 8 says that creature groans waiting to be released into the hands of the risen saints)

For a Christian making a case against God's Kingdom ON EARTH you should have dealt with these above. Is it fair to your audience to remain silent on these weighty scriptures?

AS to your understanding of the "lively stones", why have you not explained why God's Spiritual House is made of "lively" stones. You would have gathered from John 1 and Jacob's vision of the ladder that God's House (Bethel) is built with men in resurrection, but that they must first be born again before they can but SEE the Kingdom, but to ENTER it a man must be also born out of water. You must explain why men in resurrection are raptured ONLY TO RETURN TO EARTH as Jude reports Enoch as prophesying. Then you should have explained why our Lord gave seven Parables in Matthew 13 on a Kingdom that has opposition sowers in the "field" which is the WORLD. Then you must explain why the merchant men "gave their ALL" for the WORLD?

When you have dealt with the 16 or so points above, I will have another ten for you. But I am most interested to hear from you why God was unable to fulfill His plan with an in Genesis 1:26-28. I thought He was ALL MIGHTY.

6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! (Ps 8:6–9).

You said: "For a Christian making a case against God's Kingdom ON EARTH you should have dealt with these above"

The kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of God is not of this current world or  "earth age". True believers are the spiritual " temple" or " building", not of this world, but of the world to come. The verses you provided are of this world. 

Once again, Jesus Himself said His kingdom is not of this world. And the kingdom of God is within all true believers, consummating with our Lord's return at the last day. 

You said: " rather calling them "children of the devil"

I have no idea what you are referring to. I use my words carefully. The "children of the devil" is a reference to the  "synagogue of satan", the modern day Pharisees.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: "For a Christian making a case against God's Kingdom ON EARTH you should have dealt with these above"

The kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of God is not of this current world or  "earth age". True believers are the spiritual " temple" or " building", not of this world, but of the world to come. The verses you provided are of this world. 

Once again, Jesus Himself said His kingdom is not of this world. And the kingdom of God is within all true believers, consummating with our Lord's return at the last day. 

You said: " rather calling them "children of the devil"

I have no idea what you are referring to. I use my words carefully. The "children of the devil" is a reference to the  "synagogue of satan", the modern day Pharisees.

Okay.... Thanks for the clarification ....

[Luther]

42 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Okay.... Thanks for the clarification ....

You're welcome!

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 3/10/2025 at 11:53 AM, Luther said:

Once again, Jesus Himself said His kingdom is not of this world

He meant 'world' in the terms of an age.

His resurrection was physical: Luke 24:37-39.
Our resurrection will be like His, physical also. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.
In Adam all physically die, because of the physical fruit he ate that effected his physical body and therefore all his descendants.
In Christ all physically live because He physically rose from the dead.

Paul speaks of a spiritual body in 1 Corinthians 15, but also of alive people being changed.
We know that alive people will be caught up and changed also because of 1 Thess 4:16-17.
Therefore what happens is a physical event.
The dead shall be raised, in the same manner that Christ was raised; physically.

"This is the first resurrection" Revelation 20:5

 

There are only 2 resurrections, one of the just and then of everyone else after 1000 years.

The idea that the 1000 years is just spiritual does not fit with the specifics given in the text.

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished"

When the dead lived the first time, they were physical, therefore living, again, means physical again.
 

 

[Luther]

25 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

He meant 'world' in the terms of an age.

His resurrection was physical: Luke 24:37-39.
Our resurrection will be like His, physical also. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.
In Adam all physically die, because of the physical fruit he ate that effected his physical body and therefore all his descendants.
In Christ all physically live because He physically rose from the dead.

Paul speaks of a spiritual body in 1 Corinthians 15, but also of alive people being changed.
We know that alive people will be caught up and changed also because of 1 Thess 4:16-17.
Therefore what happens is a physical event.
The dead shall be raised, in the same manner that Christ was raised; physically.

"This is the first resurrection" Revelation 20:5

 

There are only 2 resurrections, one of the just and then of everyone else after 1000 years.

The idea that the 1000 years is just spiritual does not fit with the specifics given in the text.

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished"

When the dead lived the first time, they were physical, therefore living, again, means physical again.
 

 

You said: "He meant 'world' in the terms of an age."

No He didn't. You're just trying to justify your one verse doctrine, sorry. I've said it a "thousand" times I'll say it again. The nonsensical notion of Christ having to deal with an additional thousand years of a sin cursed earth that the churches have been indoctrinated with is part of a long planned agenda to gain support from Christians for  their world government headquartered in Jerusalem.

No one is going anywhere....flights cancelled until they witness the abomination of desolation, then the glorious appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ. I can only pray that God will have mercy on those under strong delusion.