What was God`s Purpose in making the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

[Marilyn C]

So, what do you think (from God`s word if you can) was God`s Purpose in making -

1. The Nations.

2. Israel.

3. The Body of Christ.

 

If you can only comment on one group, that is fine.

[timf]

I think that God gave humans free will even knowing what we would do with it. So each step of human history is an example of us making wrong choices both individually and collectively. Yet God was faithful and patient.

Some call the covenants, others dispensations, however, it is obvious that God has plans even as we do not take advantage of them, God provides the possibility.

https://christianpioneer.com/blogarchieve/blog227.htm

[Dennis1209]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So, what do you think (from God`s word if you can) was God`s Purpose in making -

1. The Nations.

2. Israel.

3. The Body of Christ.

 

If you can only comment on one group, that is fine.

This is not a comment, it is a doctrinal dissertation, LOL. Of course, my thoughts are open to biblical exegesis, and one shoe does not fit all. Our biblical worldview centers on the three questions. Many Rabbis and Jewish scholars attest that the reason the world is as evil as it is is the culmination of three events: Adam's original sin, Genesis 6:1-4, and the Tower of Babel.

God created the nations (Gen. 10) at Babel as a response to human rebellion led by Nimrod. It is interesting and noteworthy how Nimrod became (gibbōr). adj. strong, mighty; n. masc. warrior, mighty man.^[1]

After the flood, humanity was commanded to spread across the earth, but instead, they congregated to build a city and a tower (known as a ziggurat) to make a name for themselves (what sort of name?). The dozens of ancient global megaliths that cannot be duplicated today might be associated with this rebellion, and worshipping false gods. Was it intelligence, technology, or superhuman that built the megaliths, pre- or post-flood?

This act was a defiance against God's will. In response, God confused their languages, forcing them to scatter across the world as He had originally intended. In effect, God disinherited the nations (Deut. 32).

God then allotted these newly formed nations to members of His divine council, referred to as "sons of God" (bēn ʾĕlōhîm, who were supernatural, but they corrupted themselves). This divine allocation is an explanation for why different nations came to worship other gods, demigods, and Titans. However, this was not God's original plan but rather a judgment. God later initiated a plan to bring the nations back into His family, starting with His covenant with Abraham. God chose a people set apart from the nations to be His own through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Every ancient culture retained and recorded a global flood story, as well as stories about demigod-Titans. History is littered with the recordings and traditions, Epic of Gilgamesh, I Enoch, Herodotus, Josephus, etc.

But wait, there is more. Are we to assume these people were as dumb as rocks, trying to build a ziggurat (skyscraper) to reach heaven on the flat plains of Shinar (a biblical high place)? No, they were trying to establish communication and favor related to the demi-gods of old: Genesis 6:4 (KJV) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I find CERN and the Large Hadron Collider interesting, particularly in their search for the "God particle" and the statement made by a former director. To paraphrase, perhaps we can send or receive a message to another dimension. There is an occult statue of Shiva, the Destroyer, in front of CERN Headquarters, featuring occult symbolism and video footage of occult rituals performed there.

The geographic location selected for the LHC is perplexing. This location sits atop the French-Swiss border and is historically steeped in the occult. If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck.

Do the devils have seed? Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Let me propose a question for you regarding your question number three, which relates to the church and being grafted in. What if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah?

Interesting thoughts and conversation, eh?

 

---

^[1] Tamra Hernandez, “Men,” in Lexham Theological Wordbook, ed. Douglas Mangum et al., Lexham Bible Reference Series (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014).

[Alive]

I am offended by that image.

[Orion]

All that God creates, and all that God destroys, God does for His glory. 

"Even every one that is called by My name: for I have created him for My glory..." (Isaiah 43:7).  "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing..." (Proverbs 25:2). "Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and His greatness is unsearchable." (Psalm 145:3).  "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!" (Romans 11:33).  "For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen." (Romans 11:36).

Peace 

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

This is not a comment, it is a doctrinal dissertation, LOL. Of course, my thoughts are open to biblical exegesis, and one shoe does not fit all. Our biblical worldview centers on the three questions. Many Rabbis and Jewish scholars attest that the reason the world is as evil as it is is the culmination of three events: Adam's original sin, Genesis 6:1-4, and the Tower of Babel.

God created the nations (Gen. 10) at Babel as a response to human rebellion led by Nimrod. It is interesting and noteworthy how Nimrod became (gibbōr). adj. strong, mighty; n. masc. warrior, mighty man.^[1]

After the flood, humanity was commanded to spread across the earth, but instead, they congregated to build a city and a tower (known as a ziggurat) to make a name for themselves (what sort of name?). The dozens of ancient global megaliths that cannot be duplicated today might be associated with this rebellion, and worshipping false gods. Was it intelligence, technology, or superhuman that built the megaliths, pre- or post-flood?

This act was a defiance against God's will. In response, God confused their languages, forcing them to scatter across the world as He had originally intended. In effect, God disinherited the nations (Deut. 32).

God then allotted these newly formed nations to members of His divine council, referred to as "sons of God" (bēn ʾĕlōhîm, who were supernatural, but they corrupted themselves). This divine allocation is an explanation for why different nations came to worship other gods, demigods, and Titans. However, this was not God's original plan but rather a judgment. God later initiated a plan to bring the nations back into His family, starting with His covenant with Abraham. God chose a people set apart from the nations to be His own through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Every ancient culture retained and recorded a global flood story, as well as stories about demigod-Titans. History is littered with the recordings and traditions, Epic of Gilgamesh, I Enoch, Herodotus, Josephus, etc.

But wait, there is more. Are we to assume these people were as dumb as rocks, trying to build a ziggurat (skyscraper) to reach heaven on the flat plains of Shinar (a biblical high place)? No, they were trying to establish communication and favor related to the demi-gods of old: Genesis 6:4 (KJV) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I find CERN and the Large Hadron Collider interesting, particularly in their search for the "God particle" and the statement made by a former director. To paraphrase, perhaps we can send or receive a message to another dimension. There is an occult statue of Shiva, the Destroyer, in front of CERN Headquarters, featuring occult symbolism and video footage of occult rituals performed there.

The geographic location selected for the LHC is perplexing. This location sits atop the French-Swiss border and is historically steeped in the occult. If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck.

Do the devils have seed? Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Let me propose a question for you regarding your question number three, which relates to the church and being grafted in. What if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah?

Interesting thoughts and conversation, eh?

 

---

^[1] Tamra Hernandez, “Men,” in Lexham Theological Wordbook, ed. Douglas Mangum et al., Lexham Bible Reference Series (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014).

 

Morning Dennis,

Interesting thoughts there. You did have a run. As to `make a name,` I would say that means `renown.`  Dubai is renown for having the tallest building in the world.

Your question, `What if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah? Well, we would be under Jewish rule now. Just as well God is omniscient and knows all things so His plans work according to His appointed times. God knew Israel would reject Him but still He offered Himself to them.

And even throughout the time of `Acts` Israel could have turned to the Lord Jesus, but we see at the end of Acts many of the rulers in Israel even rejected the Holy Spirit. Thus, the nation sealed their time for nearly 2,000 years of dispersion. 

 

The Nations - you say God created them at the tower of Babel. Actually, God just dispersed them.(Gen. 11: 7 - 9) In Adam & Eve were all the genetics of variation we have today. God is a God of variations. 

You said `God disinherited the nations.` (Deut. 32) Remember that God is omniscient, (all knowing) and man`s disobedience isn`t going to stop God`s purpose for the Nations being fulfilled. God says -

`Rejoice O Gentiles, with His people.....` (Deut. 32: 41)

God`s purpose for mankind in the nations - `Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth...` (Gen. 1: 28) And we see those nations of the saved on the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24) (Note: these are not the Body of Christ who are called out of the nations.)

Interesting question to you Dennis. What will God do when man `fills the earth?

[Marilyn C]

And a big thank you to those who have answered already.

Good for us to think on these deeper questions.

[BibleStudent100]

22 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

No, they were trying to establish communication and favor related to the demi-gods of old:

Hi Dennis, you are spot on regarding WHY the ancients decided to put in the incredible amount of work required to build the ziggurat:  "They now said: “Come! Let us build a city for ourselves and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves, so that we will not be scattered over the entire face of the earth.” (Genesis 11:4).  The phrase "let us make a celebrated name for ourselves" is vague and it is possible that the descendants of Noah had heard the impressive stories of the strength and pride and self-assuredness of the fallen angels (the nephilim) and maybe they were making a tower to harken back to those days or to appease those "gods" with some thought of bringing back the "glory" days of strength and wickedness.  

To mount such a massive feat would have required incredible human strength and organization and motivation for Nimrod's followers and they all would have had to have some "buy in," as in what is in it for me?  Again, the motivation could have been, "let's create another society with super-human creatures and maybe we could be like them."

On a side note, have you all thought about this idea:  The fame and dread of the Nephilim could have given rise to many mythologies of heathen people (e.g. Greek mythology) who, after the confusion of languages at Babel, were scattered throughout the earth. 

[Dennis1209]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Morning Dennis,

Interesting thoughts there. You did have a run. As to `make a name,` I would say that means `renown.`  Dubai is renown for having the tallest building in the world.

Your question, `What if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah? Well, we would be under Jewish rule now. Just as well God is omniscient and knows all things so His plans work according to His appointed times. God knew Israel would reject Him but still He offered Himself to them.

And even throughout the time of `Acts` Israel could have turned to the Lord Jesus, but we see at the end of Acts many of the rulers in Israel even rejected the Holy Spirit. Thus, the nation sealed their time for nearly 2,000 years of dispersion. 

 

The Nations - you say God created them at the tower of Babel. Actually, God just dispersed them.(Gen. 11: 7 - 9) In Adam & Eve were all the genetics of variation we have today. God is a God of variations. 

You said `God disinherited the nations.` (Deut. 32) Remember that God is omniscient, (all knowing) and man`s disobedience isn`t going to stop God`s purpose for the Nations being fulfilled. God says -

`Rejoice O Gentiles, with His people.....` (Deut. 32: 41)

God`s purpose for mankind in the nations - `Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth...` (Gen. 1: 28) And we see those nations of the saved on the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24) (Note: these are not the Body of Christ who are called out of the nations.)

Interesting question to you Dennis. What will God do when man `fills the earth?

I say God created the "nations" in the sense of birds of a feather flocking together, as in the same language grouping and migrating-dispersing together, eventually forming nations and borders. These groups took their idols, false deities, and beliefs with them.

I am not precisely sure what you are asking, but I will take a guess, filled with people.

God's command to "fill the earth" in Genesis 1:28 is primarily understood as a blessing for humanity to populate the world through reproduction. This directive was given to both Adam and Eve, and later to Noah and his family after the flood. In Genesis 6, when mankind filled the earth with violence instead of God's rule, God responded with judgment through the flood. God's ultimate plan involves fulfilling His original creation intentions through a righteous humanity, which is achieved through Jesus Christ.

Related to this, I have pondered other thoughts, namely confinement, location, and dwelling. We were created out of the earth, on the earth, and for the earth. With the biblical narrative, I infer that planet Earth will be our eternal home. Still, many other planets could be inhabited out there, not to mention the dimensions that the spiritual realm encompasses. In the end, all things will be made anew.

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

MANSION ~ ②         a place in which one stays, dwelling(-place), room, abode^[1]

Revelation 3:12 (KJV) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

I have long assumed the holy city, the New Jerusalem, will be our eternal home and abode. The statement "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband" certainly sounds like this is the NT Church of Christ only. God's chosen people as a nation will be given a large chunk of land for their own, with the borders outlined in Gen. 15:18 and Numbers 34:1-5. I assume that will be their dwelling place.

I suspect most of us are curious and wonder what our eternal abode will be like. We know it will be beautiful beyond description. The KJV describes our eternal abode as a mansion. In my mind, when I picture a mansion, I think of dozens of spacious and luxurious rooms where the wealthy and elite dwell.

One day, with nothing better to do and too much time on my hands, I thought I would do a rough calculation of the size and volume of the possible size of my mansion (room). It somewhat follows the Drake Equation if you are familiar with it, inserting unknowns.

I calculated the volume of the New Jerusalem to be 1,500 x 1,500 x 1,500 miles. Scientific guesses of how many people ever lived (108 billion people). Wide is the way, and narrow is the gate of 10% of people with saving faith and some other considerations.

My Drake-Dennis calculation came out to the size of a large master bedroom. Yeah, I know; I lost a few marbles along the way, and over the years, that is why I maintain a good supply of Reynolds Wrap hats to wear behind the keyboard. 😊

 

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^[1] William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 658.

[tatwo]

Greetings @Marilyn C and all...

On 6/1/2025 at 12:38 AM, Marilyn C said:

So, what do you think (from God`s word if you can) was God`s Purpose in making -

1. The Nations.

2. Israel.

3. The Body of Christ

I can and would love too...I was beginning to think that no one would ask.

 "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Gen 1:27 NASB

This is "God's original intent" and the "entire purpose" for an "abundant creation" being put in place to begin with...to support this "Man."  God is an invisible Spirit...He wants to reveal Himself and His love to His creation as Father...but He is "so big" that there is no vantage point where one could go and say..."over there...yeh it's God I can see God"...no...creation exists within Him and comes forth from Him.

He desires to "dwell" among His creation as Himself...an eternal Spirit...so He made a "man of flesh"...Adam the first human and son of God. Adam failed...God knew this was going to happen which is why the "first Adam" was not the "man in the image and likeness of God." Adam did however accomplish the bringing forth the family of humans in a fleshly body...in which God the Father placed a spirit of life...an impartation of Himself...and a soul.

All of carnal humanity springs forth from Adam and Eve...that's how the entirety of humanity was set in motion and why. This includes all the nations, Israel and Body of Christ...God simply wants to dwell among His creation...specifically and only in people who are in His image...God has always wanted to be experienced by mankind. We know that the Lord Yahshua Christ was in view prior to creation being established...many scriptures reveal this...so Yahshua...the “second Adam” was always God the Fathers perfect intention and the fulfillment of God’s original "pre-creation" intention...“the man created in His image and likeness.”

He...the Lord Yahshua comes forth then...as the "perfect Son of God”...He is “the man in the image and likeness of God...Himself"...Yahshua came forth to show us His Father...whose eternal “Spirit” was now on the earth in a human being...Him. Whoever qualifies as a son of God in this creation...is in Christ...and is becoming “the man in the image and likeness of Christ”...who is God.

When He is fully matured...according to the Holy Spirits judgment, which time has been set prophetically...He will begin to be revealed upon the earth...as the “Son of God.” His nature is an invisible Spirit...housed in human bodies...exactly like our Lord Yahshua Christ...for exactly the same purpose...to reconcile man to God and to destroy the works of the devil...and this will be right here on this present earth...unto the revealing of creations King and High Priest.

The “Spirit to spirit” interaction that humanity can have with the eternal God...is what connects the “spirit mind of man” to the “Spirit mind of God”...where they “commune as an eternal One.” The man was given a soul so that he would be able to interact or connect with the physical world around him.

So this “man in the image and likeness of God” is capable of interacting with the Spirit of the eternal living God in Christ...while also and simultaneously being able to interact with the physical world and its people around him...by the five senses of the soul.

This “Mans” body is how the “man” exists in the world...visible and experiential to the world...all the while by his spirit...being able to exist “in” the Spirit of the eternal invisible person of Christ. This man is both divine and eternal because He is Spirit...no free man, no slave...no male, no female...no Jew, no gentile. He is an entirely new creation and is not known after the human designations...even though humans are.

This then is how the mighty God interacts, loves and is loved and worshipped in His creation. This “Man” and “this man only” the “Son of God...Christ...Head and Body”...becomes “the Son who is the dazzling radiance of God’s splendor, the exact expression of God’s true nature—His mirror image!” 

In other words...”the Man in the image and likeness of God”...for which creation was abundantly "sown and purposed"...to bring forth...so that God the Father would have many Spirit sons in His only begotten Son the Lord Yahshua Christ...by His Spirit. It is these that He will “harvest from creation” and take into eternity to rule and reign as Christ the Son of the living God!

This Marilyn...covers the “purpose of God making the...nations, Israel, the Body of Christ.” I would be remiss if I did not include here that the mature members of Christ...are so...because they are living out the exact purpose in the Body of Christ that the Father “predestined...before creation” and desires them to live...and they know it.

They have been reconciled to their “eternal purpose in Christ”...it is these who will reveal the supremacy of Christ to His enemies...so...we are nearly prepared for and end of the age show down with darkness...and the judgment has already been awarded to the “Man in the image and likeness of God”...known as the Son of the living God and Father of creation...Christ.

Tatwo...:)