What was God`s Purpose in making the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

[Marathoner]

It would be good to repeat the words of the Lord here once more:

And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the one who does wrong still do wrong, and the one who is filthy still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous still practice righteousness, and the one who is holy still keep himself holy.” (Revelation 22:10-11 NASB)

The Lord has given men and the nations of this earth over to wickedness and lust, thus "...Let the one who does wrong still do wrong, and the one who is still filthy be filthy...".  

 

[lrs68]

Ultimately, God wants a unique specific kind of people that is different from everyone else.

 

After Noah and the Nations was established [Deuteronomy  32]

8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,

    when he divided mankind,

he fixed the borders of the peoples

    according to the number of the sons of God.

9 But the Lord's portion is his people,

    Jacob his allotted heritage.

 

...God set apart a people that had its own Laws and Diet that separated them from the rest of humanity.

 

Look at Christianity, those who truly follow Yeshua are separated from the rest of humanity like the Hebrews were.

 

God's intention was to have a People that is separated from everyone else.   That's as simple as it gets for why God created the Nations, Israel, and Christians.

 

I am a Peculiar Person.

I am separated from the lost because of God.

I live on planet earth but it isn't my home.

Edited Tuesday at 02:09 PM by lrs68

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

Fascinating response with a lot to ponder!   Do you think that the great watery canopy that was the storage for all the water that fell during the Flood could have prevented some of the harmful UV rays from the celestial realm from hitting the earth, which could have caused the longevity of humans before the Flood?  In other words, right after the Flood, the length of human life instantly dropped to the "standard" length of 70-80 years in accord with Ps 90:10

 

Good morning,

This subject has always fascinated me, and I have devoted a great deal of study to it.

First, a little disclaimer. Like everyone else, I form my beliefs based on the inerrant, infallible word of God first and foremost and my interpretation thereof. We all do not interpret scripture the same, and I never claim my view is the correct one.

The modern Western mind does not think or believe in the same way as the ancient Eastern mind. With Israel as ground zero, is it a coincidence writing is from left to right to Israel's west and right to left east of there, as one of many examples?

However, it is reasonable to deduce that the Earth had a protective canopy of some sort, which filtered out the harmful light band. Today, we know the detrimental effects of UV light and radiation, harming our DNA and causing cancer and other health effects sooner rather than later. I speculate it was a canopy of ice encompassing the entire planet.

The Lord drastically reduced human longevity from centuries to a maximum of 120 years (Genesis 6:3 (KJV) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.)  by these means. I think the latest revision of human longevity is: Psalm 90:10 (KJV) The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. (70-80 years).

Examining the attached longevity chart below, God did not immediately reduce longevity to a maximum of 120 years but instead did so sequentially through generations.

At one time, our planet had to be close to a uniform temperature. All the flora and trees discovered under the ice caps at the North Pole and Antarctica bear witness to this, along with the mammoth fossil record of flora and fauna. An old, detailed, extremely geographically accurate, and precise map was discovered of an ice-free Antarctica. The only possible way a cartographer could do it is if the coasts and land were ice-free.

Another question related to the Great Deluge is how and why the poles accumulated so much ice, miles thick in places, and what caused the ice age. It is another interesting study, too lengthy to delve into in this post.

I reason that there were no earthquakes before Noah's flood, and the mountains were molehills compared to today, now having tectonic activity resulting from the Earth's crust fracturing and releasing the aquifers under pressure from the deep. From that, and the Genesis account of God making dry land, the Earth's surface is now ¾ water.

As the Bible states, the Earth was watered by a mist. God caused the crystalline ice canopy to turn into water. Rain was never seen before this event, resulting in rain for forty days and nights. I suspect most of the deluge was the result of the Earth's mantle breaking up. With the aid of modern technology, including ground penetrating radar (GPR) and sonar, these cracks in the Earth's mantle are now documented and mapped.

For fossilization to occur, it must happen rapidly, not taking a long time. There are many examples of recent fossilization, the process, and the short time it takes. There are at least two schools of thought regarding the fossil record: the old earth theory, which posits a previous creation destroyed by judgment, and the Noah's Flood account.

My view is that Noah's flood is responsible for the fossil record. The record shows flora and fauna of mammoth size, including dinosaurs, dragonflies with three-foot wing spans, pterosaurs, and more.

Insects have exoskeletons that they breathe through. The atmospheric oxygen content and atmospheric pressure limit their size, and reptiles continue to grow throughout their entire lives. It seems reasonable to surmise that before Earth's breakup, the atmospheric conditions were much different than today, possibly related to the breakup of the theorized protective canopy. Here is something to ponder and chew on:

Was the stature of humans proportional to their environment? Imagine swatting off mosquitos the size of baseballs, ticks sucking ounces of blood, a biting horsefly the size of a cantaloupe, etc.

I cannot prove it, but I surmise humanity had to be larger in stature than after the deluge. If that thought is actual, then it gives another perspective for:

Genesis 6:4 (KJV) There were giants in the Earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

What are your thoughts and views?

 

[tatwo]

On 6/2/2025 at 7:38 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Tatwo,

So glad to see you say that many sons are taken into eternity to rule and reign with Christ. I agree.

Now, where has each group been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity? 

So if I understand your question...you are asking this in the light of your list...”The Nations, Israel, The Body of Christ”...and where each group is appointed to rule in eternity...this is what I am working from.

Now based upon your question...it appears to me that you believe...“each group [has] been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity”...so it does appear that you are separating their existence by these three designations and this...in eternity.

At a glance...you and I may have a different understanding of eternity...and Spirit life. That means...that it is likely that we are not in the same “mindset” concerning “Spirit life in Christ” as well.

I am thankful to discuss this matter with you @Marilyn C...in as much as you so desire. And I am honored that you would ask me this question...so thank you. Today is fresh...your question is “Worthy”...you are “Worthy” my Sister...here is how I will respond.

My answer to the question you asked of me and in your “OP” in this forum... “where has each group been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity?” is this. The “Jews and the nations” have no place in the eternal spiritual Kingdom of God as you have listed. The Body of Christ...which includes its glorious Head is a completely different reality and person...a Spirit.

The designation of “Jew and gentile” is a direct reference to a “flesh and blood” humanity which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. The Son of God known as Christ is not flesh and blood...He is Spirit. If a Jew becomes a son of God...”Spirit” he is in the Kingdom of God...the same goes for the “nations” or the “Greek” or the “gentile” or the “heathen” and all the others Paul has listed.

My explanation is below...if you or any others care to read it...do not be surprised if you hear some Truth you may have never heard or perhaps simply have not pieced together yet? And I am open for discussion in the matter.

Christ...the many membered “Spirit Man” [Christ – Head and Body as one eternal Spirit being] is the basis and the purpose of creation...I think I made my point patently in my earlier post. You may not agree with my interpretation...fine. Christ then...being eternal...existed prior to creations [heaven and earth] actual existence...scripture supports this well.

If “Christ” existed prior to our God and Father installing this creation within Himself...which He did...then the “pre-creation Christ” had to have been “Spirit and eternal” in nature...like God....not flesh and blood...and of course...He is. Perhaps you are following me here...you may disagree...but at least follow me as I chase this out some?

The term “nations – ethnos” is generally describing heathens and gentiles...people, humans, flesh and blood beings.

The term “Israel – Israél” is used in the New Testament to refer to the people of Israel, the nation of Israel, and sometimes symbolically to denote the spiritual descendants of Jacob....again we see clear reference to...people, humans, flesh and blood beings.

The term “Body of Christ” – as I have posted above...is not “flesh and blood” He is “Spirit.” On the earth He...the Holy Spirit of Christ...indwells people, humans...“flesh and blood” beings. He however...is not flesh and blood...He is not human...He is the eternal Spirit...which is a completely independent life...from the biological flesh and blood existence of the human body.

The life of the Spirit is an endowment out of the person of God Himself who is “Spirit.” For example...think Yahshua post baptism...where the Spirit of God descended and remained upon Him...which was a sign to John the Baptist...designating the One who is the “Lamb of God” and “would baptize in the Holy Spirit.”

In this event...the Holy Spirit revealed Himself as “real, alive and living” in the Lord Yahshua Christ...the son of man [flesh]...making Him The Son of God [Spirit]...while walking the earth in His flesh and blood. Paul told us that...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.”

Christ Yahshua is...since at least His ascension to glory...Spirit...and the Sons of God have...His Spirit which is Him...indwelling us...and His Spirit is eternal...no beginning no end...all flesh will parish.

That’s why the Lord told Nicodemus...“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Yahshua is openly telling Nicodemus a Pharisee and a leader of the Jews...there is a “significant” difference between “flesh and Spirit”...the number one issue is...the flesh will die...and the Spirit can never die.  If you are “not” born again...you remain in “your flesh” and you do not have the “eternal life of Christ” in you...the Holy Spirit.

Yahshua makes it emphatically clear...“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” He is saying that...you must have the “Holy Spirit” dwelling within your members...in your “human spirit” in order to be “in Christ” and to enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God...having existed prior to creations actual existence...this Spirit...is not flesh and blood.

“Flesh and blood cannot inherit the eternal Kingdom of God” because...they are not “Spirit”...only Spirit can inherit the spiritual Kingdom of God. Paul wrote in Galatians 3 “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [Holy Spirit] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; [all 6 designations are in reference to flesh and blood] for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” There is no flesh and blood in Christ...one is in Christ as a Spirit and an eternal Spirit at that.

To apply your question to me Marilyn...I am led at this point to tell you this...working from Paul who said...neither...“Jew nor Greek”...in other words there is neither...“Israel nor nations”...in Christ...it is a one to one correlation. “Israel and nations” are the designations of the “flesh and blood” of humans...flesh and blood humans are not in the Kingdom of God. Only those who have the Holy Spirit are in the Kingdom of God because this is a “Spirit Kingdom” and you must have God’s “Spirit”...in your “spirit” to be assembled into it.

In Romans 10 Paul tells the family of God...“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; [Once again Israel & Nations] for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him.” Those “in Christ” are no longer seen by Yahshua and Paul as “Jews and gentiles”...the Lord is a Spirit...this is reference to “the spirits of the righteous made perfect” which Paul acknowledges as the “general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven” from Hebrews 12. Only Spirits can be in heaven...right...and by virtue of being in Christ...we are already there? It is a spiritual reality...not a physical reality...I think people forget that.

Do not forget the earlier reference I listed for you...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; [because in Christ we are recognized as a Spirit] even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, [when He was alive on the earth] yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” [Since His ascension and glorification] we now recognize Him as the eternal Holy Spirit.

Those who are in Christ are so...as a Spirit...we are a totally new being...and “the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, [the “nations and Israel”] circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.”

Here in Colossians 3 Paul lists 8 designations applied to the “flesh and blood” of all humanity and states that whosoever is in Christ is no longer set apart by the distinctions of flesh and blood designations...though while in their flesh and blood existence “other humans” may recognize them by these designations.

I will leave you with this from Ephesians 2...“For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups [Jews - Israel and gentiles - nations] into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, [there is now “no distinction” between the two] by abolishing in His flesh [The sacrifice of His flesh] the enmity, [the disparity and angst] which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, [The law of Moses as given to Israel] so that in Himself [this is what it means to be “in Christ”] He might make the two into one new man, [a “Spirit Man” named Christ] thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body [the “Spirit” Body of Christ] to God [who is a Spirit] through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.”

In Christ...there is no difference between the Jew and the gentile...Israel and the nations because the Body of Christy has become “One New [Spirit] Man”...known as Christ...the Son of the living God.

Tatwo...:)

[Marilyn C]

On 6/3/2025 at 10:59 PM, Marathoner said:

It would be good to repeat the words of the Lord here once more:

And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the one who does wrong still do wrong, and the one who is filthy still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous still practice righteousness, and the one who is holy still keep himself holy.” (Revelation 22:10-11 NASB)

The Lord has given men and the nations of this earth over to wickedness and lust, thus "...Let the one who does wrong still do wrong, and the one who is still filthy be filthy...".  

 

HI Marathoner,

However, wicked of the nations are not going to stop God fulfilling His purpose for the nations. There are some who turned to God and will be `those of the nations who are saved,` on the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

[Marilyn C]

On 6/4/2025 at 12:08 AM, lrs68 said:

Ultimately, God wants a unique specific kind of people that is different from everyone else.

 

After Noah and the Nations was established [Deuteronomy  32]

8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,

    when he divided mankind,

he fixed the borders of the peoples

    according to the number of the sons of God.

9 But the Lord's portion is his people,

    Jacob his allotted heritage.

 

...God set apart a people that had its own Laws and Diet that separated them from the rest of humanity.

 

Look at Christianity, those who truly follow Yeshua are separated from the rest of humanity like the Hebrews were.

 

God's intention was to have a People that is separated from everyone else.   That's as simple as it gets for why God created the Nations, Israel, and Christians.

 

I am a Peculiar Person.

I am separated from the lost because of God.

I live on planet earth but it isn't my home.

Hi Irs,

Yes, I agree that the nations were established after Noah, and from Adam and Eve`s genetics. (Gen. 10: 32) And many of those in the nations will turn to God and be those of the nations who are saved on the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

And yes, Israel is God`s nation called out of the other nations. God will still fulfill His purpose for them as rulers over the nations. (1 Kings 2: 45)

Finally, as you said the Body of Christ is separated from the rest of humanity, called out of the nations and Israel. Our special purpose will be fulfilled when we are caught up to the Lord and taken to His very own throne in glory. (Rev. 3: 21)

Glad you also know that this planet is not your home. I believe that too.

[Marilyn C]

On 6/4/2025 at 12:33 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Good morning,

This subject has always fascinated me, and I have devoted a great deal of study to it.

First, a little disclaimer. Like everyone else, I form my beliefs based on the inerrant, infallible word of God first and foremost and my interpretation thereof. We all do not interpret scripture the same, and I never claim my view is the correct one.

The modern Western mind does not think or believe in the same way as the ancient Eastern mind. With Israel as ground zero, is it a coincidence writing is from left to right to Israel's west and right to left east of there, as one of many examples?

However, it is reasonable to deduce that the Earth had a protective canopy of some sort, which filtered out the harmful light band. Today, we know the detrimental effects of UV light and radiation, harming our DNA and causing cancer and other health effects sooner rather than later. I speculate it was a canopy of ice encompassing the entire planet.

The Lord drastically reduced human longevity from centuries to a maximum of 120 years (Genesis 6:3 (KJV) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.)  by these means. I think the latest revision of human longevity is: Psalm 90:10 (KJV) The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. (70-80 years).

Examining the attached longevity chart below, God did not immediately reduce longevity to a maximum of 120 years but instead did so sequentially through generations.

At one time, our planet had to be close to a uniform temperature. All the flora and trees discovered under the ice caps at the North Pole and Antarctica bear witness to this, along with the mammoth fossil record of flora and fauna. An old, detailed, extremely geographically accurate, and precise map was discovered of an ice-free Antarctica. The only possible way a cartographer could do it is if the coasts and land were ice-free.

Another question related to the Great Deluge is how and why the poles accumulated so much ice, miles thick in places, and what caused the ice age. It is another interesting study, too lengthy to delve into in this post.

I reason that there were no earthquakes before Noah's flood, and the mountains were molehills compared to today, now having tectonic activity resulting from the Earth's crust fracturing and releasing the aquifers under pressure from the deep. From that, and the Genesis account of God making dry land, the Earth's surface is now ¾ water.

As the Bible states, the Earth was watered by a mist. God caused the crystalline ice canopy to turn into water. Rain was never seen before this event, resulting in rain for forty days and nights. I suspect most of the deluge was the result of the Earth's mantle breaking up. With the aid of modern technology, including ground penetrating radar (GPR) and sonar, these cracks in the Earth's mantle are now documented and mapped.

For fossilization to occur, it must happen rapidly, not taking a long time. There are many examples of recent fossilization, the process, and the short time it takes. There are at least two schools of thought regarding the fossil record: the old earth theory, which posits a previous creation destroyed by judgment, and the Noah's Flood account.

My view is that Noah's flood is responsible for the fossil record. The record shows flora and fauna of mammoth size, including dinosaurs, dragonflies with three-foot wing spans, pterosaurs, and more.

Insects have exoskeletons that they breathe through. The atmospheric oxygen content and atmospheric pressure limit their size, and reptiles continue to grow throughout their entire lives. It seems reasonable to surmise that before Earth's breakup, the atmospheric conditions were much different than today, possibly related to the breakup of the theorized protective canopy. Here is something to ponder and chew on:

Was the stature of humans proportional to their environment? Imagine swatting off mosquitos the size of baseballs, ticks sucking ounces of blood, a biting horsefly the size of a cantaloupe, etc.

I cannot prove it, but I surmise humanity had to be larger in stature than after the deluge. If that thought is actual, then it gives another perspective for:

Genesis 6:4 (KJV) There were giants in the Earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

What are your thoughts and views?

 

Hi Dennis,

You have studied a lot. Very interesting there bro.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, tatwo said:

So if I understand your question...you are asking this in the light of your list...”The Nations, Israel, The Body of Christ”...and where each group is appointed to rule in eternity...this is what I am working from.

Now based upon your question...it appears to me that you believe...“each group [has] been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity”...so it does appear that you are separating their existence by these three designations and this...in eternity.

At a glance...you and I may have a different understanding of eternity...and Spirit life. That means...that it is likely that we are not in the same “mindset” concerning “Spirit life in Christ” as well.

I am thankful to discuss this matter with you @Marilyn C...in as much as you so desire. And I am honored that you would ask me this question...so thank you. Today is fresh...your question is “Worthy”...you are “Worthy” my Sister...here is how I will respond.

My answer to the question you asked of me and in your “OP” in this forum... “where has each group been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity?” is this. The “Jews and the nations” have no place in the eternal spiritual Kingdom of God as you have listed. The Body of Christ...which includes its glorious Head is a completely different reality and person...a Spirit.

The designation of “Jew and gentile” is a direct reference to a “flesh and blood” humanity which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. The Son of God known as Christ is not flesh and blood...He is Spirit. If a Jew becomes a son of God...”Spirit” he is in the Kingdom of God...the same goes for the “nations” or the “Greek” or the “gentile” or the “heathen” and all the others Paul has listed.

My explanation is below...if you or any others care to read it...do not be surprised if you hear some Truth you may have never heard or perhaps simply have not pieced together yet? And I am open for discussion in the matter.

Christ...the many membered “Spirit Man” [Christ – Head and Body as one eternal Spirit being] is the basis and the purpose of creation...I think I made my point patently in my earlier post. You may not agree with my interpretation...fine. Christ then...being eternal...existed prior to creations [heaven and earth] actual existence...scripture supports this well.

If “Christ” existed prior to our God and Father installing this creation within Himself...which He did...then the “pre-creation Christ” had to have been “Spirit and eternal” in nature...like God....not flesh and blood...and of course...He is. Perhaps you are following me here...you may disagree...but at least follow me as I chase this out some?

The term “nations – ethnos” is generally describing heathens and gentiles...people, humans, flesh and blood beings.

The term “Israel – Israél” is used in the New Testament to refer to the people of Israel, the nation of Israel, and sometimes symbolically to denote the spiritual descendants of Jacob....again we see clear reference to...people, humans, flesh and blood beings.

The term “Body of Christ” – as I have posted above...is not “flesh and blood” He is “Spirit.” On the earth He...the Holy Spirit of Christ...indwells people, humans...“flesh and blood” beings. He however...is not flesh and blood...He is not human...He is the eternal Spirit...which is a completely independent life...from the biological flesh and blood existence of the human body.

The life of the Spirit is an endowment out of the person of God Himself who is “Spirit.” For example...think Yahshua post baptism...where the Spirit of God descended and remained upon Him...which was a sign to John the Baptist...designating the One who is the “Lamb of God” and “would baptize in the Holy Spirit.”

In this event...the Holy Spirit revealed Himself as “real, alive and living” in the Lord Yahshua Christ...the son of man [flesh]...making Him The Son of God [Spirit]...while walking the earth in His flesh and blood. Paul told us that...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.”

Christ Yahshua is...since at least His ascension to glory...Spirit...and the Sons of God have...His Spirit which is Him...indwelling us...and His Spirit is eternal...no beginning no end...all flesh will parish.

That’s why the Lord told Nicodemus...“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Yahshua is openly telling Nicodemus a Pharisee and a leader of the Jews...there is a “significant” difference between “flesh and Spirit”...the number one issue is...the flesh will die...and the Spirit can never die.  If you are “not” born again...you remain in “your flesh” and you do not have the “eternal life of Christ” in you...the Holy Spirit.

Yahshua makes it emphatically clear...“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” He is saying that...you must have the “Holy Spirit” dwelling within your members...in your “human spirit” in order to be “in Christ” and to enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God...having existed prior to creations actual existence...this Spirit...is not flesh and blood.

“Flesh and blood cannot inherit the eternal Kingdom of God” because...they are not “Spirit”...only Spirit can inherit the spiritual Kingdom of God. Paul wrote in Galatians 3 “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [Holy Spirit] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; [all 6 designations are in reference to flesh and blood] for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” There is no flesh and blood in Christ...one is in Christ as a Spirit and an eternal Spirit at that.

To apply your question to me Marilyn...I am led at this point to tell you this...working from Paul who said...neither...“Jew nor Greek”...in other words there is neither...“Israel nor nations”...in Christ...it is a one to one correlation. “Israel and nations” are the designations of the “flesh and blood” of humans...flesh and blood humans are not in the Kingdom of God. Only those who have the Holy Spirit are in the Kingdom of God because this is a “Spirit Kingdom” and you must have God’s “Spirit”...in your “spirit” to be assembled into it.

In Romans 10 Paul tells the family of God...“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; [Once again Israel & Nations] for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him.” Those “in Christ” are no longer seen by Yahshua and Paul as “Jews and gentiles”...the Lord is a Spirit...this is reference to “the spirits of the righteous made perfect” which Paul acknowledges as the “general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven” from Hebrews 12. Only Spirits can be in heaven...right...and by virtue of being in Christ...we are already there? It is a spiritual reality...not a physical reality...I think people forget that.

Do not forget the earlier reference I listed for you...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; [because in Christ we are recognized as a Spirit] even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, [when He was alive on the earth] yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” [Since His ascension and glorification] we now recognize Him as the eternal Holy Spirit.

Those who are in Christ are so...as a Spirit...we are a totally new being...and “the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, [the “nations and Israel”] circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.”

Here in Colossians 3 Paul lists 8 designations applied to the “flesh and blood” of all humanity and states that whosoever is in Christ is no longer set apart by the distinctions of flesh and blood designations...though while in their flesh and blood existence “other humans” may recognize them by these designations.

I will leave you with this from Ephesians 2...“For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups [Jews - Israel and gentiles - nations] into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, [there is now “no distinction” between the two] by abolishing in His flesh [The sacrifice of His flesh] the enmity, [the disparity and angst] which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, [The law of Moses as given to Israel] so that in Himself [this is what it means to be “in Christ”] He might make the two into one new man, [a “Spirit Man” named Christ] thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body [the “Spirit” Body of Christ] to God [who is a Spirit] through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.”

In Christ...there is no difference between the Jew and the gentile...Israel and the nations because the Body of Christy has become “One New [Spirit] Man”...known as Christ...the Son of the living God.

Tatwo...:)

Hi Tatwo,

You also have thought quite a lot. I agree we, the believer in the Body of Christ are the New Man, a spirit man. We will not be on the New Earth but in glory with the Lord. (Rev. 3: 21) 

As to the nations and Israel God made them for a purpose and He will yet fulfill that. Adam before the fall was told to multiply and fill the earth. (Gen. 1: 28) Those of the nations who turn to God will have God`s Spirit in them and populate the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

While Israel, called out from the nations, will be the ruler over the nations. (1 Kings 2: 45) God will put His Spirit within them also. (Ez. 36: 26 & 27)

[Dennis1209]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

We will not be on the New Earth but in glory with the Lord. (Rev. 3: 21) 

Good morning from up above, Marilyn.

I would like to hear your scriptural evidence on why you believe our eternal destination is in heaven, and not on the earth if you will. My exegesis is as follows:

From the beginning, as intended and created, man was created out of the earth, on the earth, and for the earth, given care, and dominion over the earth (a special place created for us). God’s eternal plan was subverted by temptation and one man’s sin. Nonetheless, God’s original plan will come to fruition in the future. God has not changed His mind.

In the garden, the responsibility was to tend the fruit and pulse (gardening) to feed themselves (with exceptions, there are no free meals). In this regard and related, let me pose an interesting question, angel food (manna). I suspect manna is a heavenly seed or grain, ground up and prepared for bread. Is angel food created ex nihilo, or do angels too work for and tend their bread?

Admittedly, at one time I thought Christians (the church age) would spend eternity in Heaven, the dwelling place of God the Father. John 1:18 (KJV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 6:46 (KJV) Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Exodus 33:20 (KJV) And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

In my view, the kingdom of God is where Christ physically manifests, rules, and reigns supreme. Therefore, Heaven is coming to earth, and the new refurbished earth for eternity.

John 14:2-3 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

As the 2^nd Temple period Jewish wedding custom exactly mirrors the process of the Rapture, an addition is being built to the Father’s house for the bride, and Groom, coming to earth. When a son got married, it was common for him to build a dwelling place on his father’s property, with each new building enlarging the family. This addition to the Father’s house is the New Jerusalem, I do believe. I suspect we will see heaven possibly for seven years, from the Rapture, until we follow Christ back to earth at His second coming.

Revelation 3:21 (KJV) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I interpret this to mean, Jesus is speaking of His relationship to His Father, and sharing His throne.

[lrs68]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Irs,

Yes, I agree that the nations were established after Noah, and from Adam and Eve`s genetics. (Gen. 10: 32) And many of those in the nations will turn to God and be those of the nations who are saved on the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

And yes, Israel is God`s nation called out of the other nations. God will still fulfill His purpose for them as rulers over the nations. (1 Kings 2: 45)

Finally, as you said the Body of Christ is separated from the rest of humanity, called out of the nations and Israel. Our special purpose will be fulfilled when we are caught up to the Lord and taken to His very own throne in glory. (Rev. 3: 21)

Glad you also know that this planet is not your home. I believe that too.

Amen!