Death Penalty

[Gerioke]

Mathew 26:

52 Then said Jesus to him, Put up again your sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

[Gerioke]

Acts 3

14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted to you;

I seems we've come full circle on this one.

[Avidan]

Acts 3

14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted to you;

I seems we've come full circle on this one.

Full circle?

yes, if you "stretch" it around a red wood tree.

[larryt]

Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone.

You take this verse out of context. But let's put it in context.

Joh 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

The situation is one of injustice. The pharisees brought the woman but where was the man. He was to be stoned too. So we see the whole situation is one of entrapment and injustice. No trial, no conviction. Just innuendo. The reason that He said "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." was to bring out their hypocrisy.

On the other hand Tookie has been convicted and it is the government's DUTY to be a TERROR AGAINST EVIL.

Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

By the way this is NT also. If you do evil then the government is a the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Ro 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

We as individuals are not to take vengeance but the government is to and must take vengeance against evil.

LT

[jamie]

Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone.

Whats that got to do with judicial justice?

Nobody here has claimed to be without sin, at least not in this discussion that I can see. Hopefully Mr. Williams is right with God because of where his actions has landed him. If you look at it with an eternal perspective then all isn't lost.

This might have been the only way the man could ever have attained eternal life.

It's a lot easier for me to want to show mercy to a murderer who has given his life to God, especially when the changes are obvious. But I still believe we have a pretty good judicial system and I wouldn't try to change it.

[apothanein kerdos]

Avidan, I ask that you calm down and look at this in an intellectual manner. We need to remove all emotion because emotion only interferes with truth. It is only when we achieve the basic measure of truth that we can begin to allow emotion to flow back in. Emotions would dictate that hell is a horrible thing and not allowed by God...however our intellect shows us that not only is this plausible, but it is true. Likewise emotions would try to tell us that the death penalty is a horrible act, however our intellect preaches a much different message. Thus I ask you to cool down and look at this in a scholarly fashion.

tHEN IS LOVE AND FORGIVENESS WEAK THEOLOGY?

Are you showing love for the victims by denying justice? Are you showing love to God when you deny justice? Are you showing love for society when you deny justice?

As for forgiveness, I do not know how much clearer I can get. Forgiveness does not equate tabula rasa, there are still consquences.

NOTE YOUR SIGNATURE!!:"He who saves a single life, saves the world entire"

Correct, but this is taken from the Talmud and not the Bible. Thus when in conflict with the Bible it falls short.

WHY? Because a offence against life is a offence against God. We act, we forgive.

God ordered us to kill those that murder.

[nebula]

NEBULA, note your signature!!

As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ we have only one right: and that is to give up all rights to ourselves (Phil. 2:1-5).

Thus we surrender our rights to Yhshwh-Gods ways. Jesus said forgive.

I did not say release him.

You still have not answered a single one of my questions.

How is a prison sentence suitable justice for a man who has surrendered himself to evil?

And please explain why forgiveness = no death penalty and not release from prison.

That makes not sense.

If forgiveness changes consequences, shouldn't it be eliminating all consequences?

The only time sentences were lessened or lifted in Scripture were when the guilty person repented.

Williams was also a victim.

A victim of sin, racisim, social enginnering, drugs, stupidity, street survival, welfare, and his own developed sense of hate for himself.

And his choices have nothing to do with anything?

Are you saying free will has nothing to do with anything?

Uh oh, is, is, is that General Sam leading the posse?

And his Brigadeer General Oveyda?

Now that was immature of you.

[nebula]

NEBULA, note your signature!!

As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ we have only one right: and that is to give up all rights to ourselves (Phil. 2:1-5).

Thus we surrender our rights to Yhshwh-Gods ways. Jesus said forgive.

I did not say release him.

You still have not answered a single one of my questions.

How is a prison sentence suitable justice for a man who has surrendered himself to evil?

And please explain why forgiveness = no death penalty and not release from prison.

That makes not sense.

If forgiveness changes consequences, shouldn't it be eliminating all consequences?

The only time sentences were lessened or lifted in Scripture were when the guilty person repented.

Williams was also a victim.

A victim of sin, racisim, social enginnering, drugs, stupidity, street survival, welfare, and his own developed sense of hate for himself.

And his choices have nothing to do with anything?

Are you saying free will has nothing to do with anything?

Uh oh, is, is, is that General Sam leading the posse?

And his Brigadeer General Oveyda?

Now that was immature of you.

[Avidan]

NEBULA, note your signature!!

As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ we have only one right: and that is to give up all rights to ourselves (Phil. 2:1-5).

Thus we surrender our rights to Yhshwh-Gods ways. Jesus said forgive.

I did not say release him.

You still have not answered a single one of my questions.

I do not hang out at this board all day.

How is a prison sentence suitable justice for a man who has surrendered himself to evil?

How is salvation justice when we did the same?

And please explain why forgiveness = no death penalty and not release from prison.

That makes not sense.

If forgiveness changes consequences, shouldn't it be eliminating all consequences?

The consequence is a life spent behind bars. That is justice. Taking his life is murder. Or an eye for an eye.

Repaying evil for evil.

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you,

[Gerioke]

Looked a bit like sarcasm to me.