Church of Christ

[Smalcald]

I like that water on the brain So I will admit that is a good one on me.

But I think you are taking the physical element water out when it is clear that it is water baptism being spoken of in several of these very clear versus.

Do you think we should be baptized?

[Khristeeanos]

The reason I haven't responded to a few of your posts is because the posts are coming so quickly that I simply don't have the time to answer them all.

I mean that sincerely and hope that this doesn't offend anybody or cause them to think that there aren't valid responses to these posts.

Tess,

You said:

But you're stating we "join Him" in His sacrifice through baptism, yet this is not evident in Scripture. For one, where is it stated we must join Him? His sacrifice was in our place. Our choice to be baptized is in recognition of, and obedience to Christ. Secondly, this would mean that we are the ones who essentially make our hearts alive, which contradicts Scripture.

Your first point is answered in Romans 6.

3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Again, baptized "into Christ" is in reference to salvation. It is not literal, it is what God alone has done. No one can baptize you into Christ except God.

YES!!!!!

You get it! That is the exact point I have been trying over and over to make.

It is God alone that saves us!

And the time He choses to save us is in the waters of baptism.

Your second point is answered in Titus and Colossians:

Colossians 2:11-13

In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Titus 3:5

he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

I notice you ignored the last part of the verse. He saved us how? Hint: It does not say through baptism

It says "washing of rebirth" here.

According to "Baptism: A Biblical Study" by Jack Cottrell (Page 144):

What exactly was that point in time when this salvation occured? None other than the event called the washing (Greek, loutron). God saved us, says Paul, by the washing which brings regeneration and renewing. In light of other New Testament uses of the word loutron and its verb form, louo, it would be unreasonable to deny that this is a reference to baptism.

Edited December 10, 2005 by 1DIEM

[MrSealedEternal]

I like that water on the brain So I will admit that is a good one on me.

But I think you are taking the physical element water out when it is clear that it is water baptism being spoken of in several of these very clear versus.

Do you think we should be baptized?

I think you should be baptized in water as a public profession of your immersion into the body of Christ, and immersion of the Holy Spirit in you, but don't put the cart before the horse. If you are baptized in water without first being baptized into Christ, you have nothing, and the water won't change that.

It is clear that the baptism that was symbolized by John the baptist was in water, and this was continued in the Book of Acts AFTER people heard the gospel and believed. Cornelius, the Ethopian Eunuch, the Phillippian jailor etc. all heard the gospel and believed before water baptism could take place. Also the theif on the cross gave us the minimal requirements for salvation. He wasn't baptized, didn't take communion, or didn't do any good works, yet he was saved by god's grace through faith.

Ephesians 1:13 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

1 Corinthians 1:13-17 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, that no man should say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, that the cross of Christ should not be made void.

You are baptized into Him, after hearing the message and believing. The water ceremony is purely ceremonial and can't save anyone. Once you have faith in Christ, you are baptized with the Holy Spirit and sealed eternally. That's the "baptism" that saves. Paul wasn't even concerned about who was water baptized and who wasn't, because he knew it was purely symbolic, and therefore was far less valuable than preaching the gospel which can save.

Luke 3:16 John answered and said to them all,

[other one]

1DIEM, I have a question for you. I grew up in the Church of Christ......

When I was a junior in high school a good friend in the sophomore class went before the church on Wensday night and professed Christ as his Lord and savior. He publicly dedicated his life to the Lord and died in a car accident on Saturday night before he was to be baptized on Sunday.

My question to you is: Was he saved or will he go to hell because he was not baptized?

This is not some trial made up thing with me for it happened and created much stress and broken friendships before we all graduated. I'd just like to know your opinion.

[Khristeeanos]

1DIEM, I have a question for you. I grew up in the Church of Christ......

When I was a junior in high school a good friend in the sophomore class went before the church on Wensday night and professed Christ as his Lord and savior. He publicly dedicated his life to the Lord and died in a car accident on Saturday night before he was to be baptized on Sunday.

My question to you is: Was he saved or will he go to hell because he was not baptized?

This is not some trial made up thing with me for it happened and created much stress and broken friendships before we all graduated. I'd just like to know your opinion.

My opinion really doesn't matter, other one.

But I hope and pray that your friend will end up in heaven. There is such a thing as baptism by death. Jesus experienced it and talked about it.

Mark 10:37-40

37They replied, "Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory."

38"You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said. "Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?"

39"We can," they answered. Jesus said to them, "You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared."

[other one]

1DIEM, I have a question for you. I grew up in the Church of Christ......

When I was a junior in high school a good friend in the sophomore class went before the church on Wensday night and professed Christ as his Lord and savior. He publicly dedicated his life to the Lord and died in a car accident on Saturday night before he was to be baptized on Sunday.

My question to you is: Was he saved or will he go to hell because he was not baptized?

This is not some trial made up thing with me for it happened and created much stress and broken friendships before we all graduated. I'd just like to know your opinion.

My opinion really doesn't matter, other one.

But I hope and pray that your friend will end up in heaven. There is such a thing as baptism by death. Jesus experienced it and talked about it.

I kind of thought that would be the kind of response I'd get.

[MrSealedEternal]

I think you should be baptized in water as a public profession of your immersion into the body of Christ, and immersion of the Holy Spirit in you, but don't put the cart before the horse. If you are baptized in water without first being baptized into Christ, you have nothing, and the water won't change that.

You

[Fiosh]

1DIEM, I have a question for you. I grew up in the Church of Christ......

When I was a junior in high school a good friend in the sophomore class went before the church on Wensday night and professed Christ as his Lord and savior. He publicly dedicated his life to the Lord and died in a car accident on Saturday night before he was to be baptized on Sunday.

My question to you is: Was he saved or will he go to hell because he was not baptized?

This is not some trial made up thing with me for it happened and created much stress and broken friendships before we all graduated. I'd just like to know your opinion.

Your friend accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour; and he expressed a desire for Baptism.

If he was sincere.........He is with Jesus.

Peace,

Fiosh

[kittylover0991]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph 2: 8,9

[kittylover0991]

1DIEM, I have a question for you. I grew up in the Church of Christ......

When I was a junior in high school a good friend in the sophomore class went before the church on Wensday night and professed Christ as his Lord and savior. He publicly dedicated his life to the Lord and died in a car accident on Saturday night before he was to be baptized on Sunday.

My question to you is: Was he saved or will he go to hell because he was not baptized?

This is not some trial made up thing with me for it happened and created much stress and broken friendships before we all graduated. I'd just like to know your opinion.

Simple answer because of a simple gift: Jesus died for all one the cross of Calvary.. if you friedn really did accept Christ, which by the sound of it, he probably did.. then he is saved. The bible says that you ahve ot call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

Because of question, I will come out and say it. Baptism has never saved anybody and will not wash away your sins. The bible says that you have to repent of your sins and accept the Lord Jesus Christ. There are no sins floating in a baptismal tank. The bible says that we are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves. Wether he wanted to get baptised or not has Nothing to do with it.

Jesus death and ressurection.. that eternal life.. is a gift from God to us. WHen it comes to a gift, you don't expect somethign in return. You just simple accept it. Eternal life is a gift. There is no working or baptism that will get you there. The bible says so over and over.

If you accept Christ, you go to heaven. That simple. End of Story.