What is so hard about the KJV?

[Lasere]

I love the old KJV it is my favourite. Without the Holy Spirit nothing makes sense and some people may not be used to this poetic language or have the patience. With the Holy Spirit it may be possible for them to learn because I think there is a rich beauty in there that can be appreciated.

Edited March 19, 2006 by Lasere

[Elihu's Girl]

This is not really meant for debate.. and I know just about everyone is tired of the discussions about the various bibles.. but what is so hard to understand about the KJV... I keep being told it is in old english.. but yet, I know the bible is written at a 7th grade reading level, and a second grade comprehension level.. I also know my God is not the author of confusion. Furthermore, I know a nine year who can read the KJV and understand it.. actually.. I know a seven year old(children I babysit).. I know there are folks young and old who can understand it just well....

What is so hard about the KJV?

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

"For the wages(payment) of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

"But God commendeth his love towards us, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"

"Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me"

"Jesus said unto them, i am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me"

"Thou shalt not steal" "Thou shalt not kill" "Thou shalt not commit adultery"

"Depart from me, ye that work iniquity, I never knew you"

What makes the KJV so hard to understand? I keep reading verses and they make sense..

Could someone possibly explain this to me?

Is it really so difficult to understand that not everyone is the same? Just because understanding the KJV is easy as pie for you does not mean that it is for everyone. I love Shakespeare, but I can understand perfectly when other people tell me they don't, that they don't understand. When people say, "The KJV of the bible is difficult for me to understand." It is quite possible that they are telling you the simple truth. No complex plot involved.

I read on a website that there is a Inuit translation of the bible. Instead of "Lamb" it reads, "animal very like the baby caribou." Otherwise they wouldn't get it.

There are several translations of the bible. I've seen one that highlights God's promises. I've seen one that, similar to the Message, paraphrases the bible. In each case, the translators preface the bible with a full explanation of the translation, how it differs from other translations and why they felt that this version is necessary. There's nothing secret about it! If even one person is moved closer to God because of these translations, if one person accepts the gospel message or understands a truth of the bible they never understood before, I consider the translation good and necessary. My mother reads the Good News bible. If it was a choice between reading the Good News bible and furrowing her eyebrows in frustration over the KJV I'm sure Jesus would rather she read a version that brought her joy and and understanding rather than frustration and confusion. Her theology is rock solid, and she has a powerful, simple faith. Yes that's not a bible for debating but not everyone is a theologian or apologist in training. What's more powerful than personal testimony?

We are actually very blessed to be having this argument/debate/conversation. There are several countries which have no translation of the gospels, let alone the whole bible. All they have are gospel tracts. These simple tracts have borne fruit of faith in the lives of simple natives, the type of simple, powerful faith that I pray to have one day.

I love the KJV. I said I was a Shakespeare fan, and I think Shakespeare was one of the writers who helped with the translation. I think he even put the letters of his name in one of the Psalms. It was the first version of the bible I ever owned, as a little girl (it had cool pictures too, my fave was David and Goliath) but it is, believe it or not, hard for me to understand sometimes. It's like reading in another language to some degree. I read and then I have to translate in my head. The NIV was a little better but it's still a little high-falutin for me. There's a cushion there between the words and my brain. But with the NLT it just goes straight to my heart. I still own a copy of the other two and refer to them. But honestly, the fact that the KJV was the first English translation of the Gospel does not mean that it is holier than the other translations, it just means it's the first English translation of the Bible. Feel free to pat yourselves on the back for reading the KJV and only the KJV. i will continue to read several translations, praying earnestly for understanding of God's Word for my life.

Edited March 19, 2006 by Elihu's Girl

[ayin jade]

But honestly, the fact that the KJV was the first English translation of the Gospel does not mean that it is holier than the other translations, it just means it's the first English translation of the Bible.

It isnt even that. The Wycliffe bible was the first. The Tynsdale and Geneva bibles are earlier english versions than the KJV. The Geneva Bible was the first Bible to add numbered verses to the chapters, so that referencing specific passages would be easier. Every chapter was also accompanied by extensive marginal notes and references so thorough and complete that the Geneva Bible is also considered the first English "Study Bible". The Geneva bible was a protestant bible, the one that came over with the pilgrims. It was very popular in its day but has not been in print since the 17th century. You can find it online however. The controversial marginal notes against the pope in the Geneva bible was the reason why the KJV bible was even translated to begin with.

[abm]

Personally, out of sheer frustration of trying to understand the finer points of Scripture I have resorted to studying Hebrew and Greek. I am to the point where I can use the manuscripts a little, but I have a LONG way to go. But, I recommend this to everybody because if how much is not translated in a word for word translation.

Simple euphemisms are not easy to translate, so unless you use something like the Amplified Version they are not usually included. (Usually, meaning if you have a word for word translation instead of a thought for thought, and even with a thought based translation some "small" stuff is left out in order to preserve "readability")

So, all in all, any translation is just that, a translation. For the complete picture of scripture one will eventually need to learn some Hebrew and Greek.

Blessings,

abm

btw, I gravitate towards the KJV.

Edited March 19, 2006 by abm

[ayin jade]

there's nothing hard to read about it. Its just excuses people use to explain why they don't read their Bible.

It is not an excuse Im making up to justify not reading the bible. It isnt easy for me to read. I prefer other translations so that I can understand what Im reading.

[Christ's Free Servant]

We don't speak King James English anymore. The new testament was originally written in common (Koine) Greek that the people could understand. We, too, should have a Bible in our common language that we speak every day. Our missionaries have for years translated the Bible into the language of peoples throughout the world, and I bet they translated into the language that the people speak. I believe even Martin Luther saw the need to have a Bible written in the common language of the people. So, we in America should have a Bible in the language we speak. Why should we read something in an outdated language that no one speaks anymore? It does not make sense. But, if that is what you prefer to read, then that is fine.

I was raised on the KJV and most of the scriptures I learned as a child I still quote from the KJV. I read my bible and prayed, but I did not understand most of what I read. I had a reading comprehension problem, as it was, and adding a difficult language to it did not help. I have never understood and still do not understand Shakespeare diaglogue, and it is much the same. Then, in 1972 or around there, our pastor introduced the NASV to us, and the Bible began to really come alive to me for the first time ever. I understood what it was saying so much better. Eventually I switched to the NIV, because that is even easier for me to understand, and that is what I have stayed with.

The KJV is written at a 11th or 12th grade level, the NASV is written at about a 9th or 10th grade level and the NIV is written at a 7th grade level. When I began college in 1968 I was reading at a 4th grade level, and I got up to 7th grade by taking a special reading class. I don't know at what level I read now, but I know 7th grade level seems to be what I understand best.

[DaniJ87]

We don't speak King James English anymore. The new testament was originally written in common (Koine) Greek that the people could understand. We, too, should have a Bible in our common language that we speak every day. Our missionaries have for years translated the Bible into the language of peoples throughout the world, and I bet they translated into the language that the people speak. I believe even Martin Luther saw the need to have a Bible written in the common language of the people. So, we in America should have a Bible in the language we speak. Why should we read something in an outdated language that no one speaks anymore? It does not make sense. But, if that is what you prefer to read, then that is fine.

I was raised on the KJV and most of the scriptures I learned as a child I still quote from the KJV. I read my bible and prayed, but I did not understand most of what I read. I had a reading comprehension problem, as it was, and adding a difficult language to it did not help. I have never understood and still do not understand Shakespeare diaglogue, and it is much the same. Then, in 1972 or around there, our pastor introduced the NASV to us, and the Bible began to really come alive to me for the first time ever. I understood what it was saying so much better. Eventually I switched to the NIV, because that is even easier for me to understand, and that is what I have stayed with.

The KJV is written at a 11th or 12th grade level, the NASV is written at about a 9th or 10th grade level and the NIV is written at a 7th grade level. When I began college in 1968 I was reading at a 4th grade level, and I got up to 7th grade by taking a special reading class. I don't know at what level I read now, but I know 7th grade level seems to be what I understand best.

Amen!

I too was raised on KJV... so I know all of the arguments why it is supposedly better. I grew up going to a camp where they tell you every year, that the KJV is God's Word.. and that it's the "best" version for all people to use.

To he who said "Well.. I've been reading it since I was 5.... never had trouble"... I contest that. Do you expect me to believe that you have ALWAYS understood EVERYTHING that you read? I don't think so. I sure haven't. Especially at 5. 5 and 6 year olds don't have much comprehension reading ENGLISH- let alone 1700's english. There IS a difference.

I can catch nearly all of the words that are confusing in the KJV... because I grew up with it. However, I have noticed that EVERY time that my youth-group leader would teach on a passage... he would spend 3/4 of the time explaining the translation into newer words... Why???? Why not use contemporary words, so that it makes sense to people... the same way as the KJV translators used words contemporary to the people of the era... and how the Greek manuscripts were written in the language of the people... Or how Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate... because people spoke the language of Latin at the time, and needed a translation?

Even I have had to look some things up. also, there are words that have changed in usage since the KJV was written... and it is scary... but a lot of people who read the KJV, (example- people at my church...) don't even realize it! They don't realize there was an earlier meaning for a word... You can't make the rest of society go back to speaking KJV-era English... so unless you want to waste time explaining everything... why not use words that keep with the reason for HAVING the Bible- so that God may speak to us, through it. We should be trying to get His message out, in the best way possible.

Just because the KJV SOUNDS nice... (yes, I appreciate the beauty it has,) does NOT mean it's better..... and much like the beauty of Shakespeare.... it can be difficult to grasp.

No matter which version you choose.... get a concordance. I found this especially necessary with the KJV.... because only by double-checking what the meaning of an original word is, can you be sure that you are understanding something correctly.

[apothanein kerdos]

I'm tired of hearing that the bible is written at a 7th grade reading level. No it's not. I don't care how simplistic you try to make it, it simply is not. Peter even said that scripture, especially Paul's writings, was difficult to understand.

We are fools when we say it is easy to understand God's Word (in any language or translation). If it was so easy then we wouldn't have thousands upon thousands of denominations.

As for the King James, it is not an easy read because words have evolved into different meanings. If I said, "I took a piss," that word would be blocked and I might have the post removed. Yet in the King James, we find out that God has a problem with people that "pisseth against the wall." "Pisseth" means, "to urinate" in the Hebrew. This is really just a humourous example, but let's not forget that words have changed meanings, as have gramatics. Up until the new translations the King James actually was going through revisions in language because of its difficulty to understand.

[apothanein kerdos]

I'm tired of hearing that the bible is written at a 7th grade reading level. No it's not. I don't care how simplistic you try to make it, it simply is not. Peter even said that scripture, especially Paul's writings, was difficult to understand.

We are fools when we say it is easy to understand God's Word (in any language or translation). If it was so easy then we wouldn't have thousands upon thousands of denominations.

As for the King James, it is not an easy read because words have evolved into different meanings. If I said, "I took a piss," that word would be blocked and I might have the post removed. Yet in the King James, we find out that God has a problem with people that "pisseth against the wall." "Pisseth" means, "to urinate" in the Hebrew. This is really just a humourous example, but let's not forget that words have changed meanings, as have gramatics. Up until the new translations the King James actually was going through revisions in language because of its difficulty to understand.

According to those who do such research the King James Bible uses Elizabethan English at the twelfth-grade reading level. The NASB requires an 11th grade reading level, and the NIV a 7.8 grade level.

This still doesn't mean the Bible is easy to read......comprehension is a key part.

[abm]

The following is from: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/isntthekjv-hard.html

ISN'T THE KING JAMES BIBLE TOO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?

Is the King James Bible too difficult to understand?

ANSWER:

1. THE KJV DOES HAVE SOME ANTIQUATED WORDS AND FORMS OF SPEECH, BUT THERE ARE NOT TOO MANY OF THESE.

The Trinitarian Bible Society publishes a list of 618 antiquated words. It is called Bible Word List. That is not very many, and most of them can be understood by considering the context. There are only about 300 antiquated words in the KJV that are so difficult that you really need a dictionary to understand them.

2. THE OVERALL READING LEVEL OF THE KJV IS NOT VERY HIGH.

The KJV is written on an 8th to 10th grade level. This has been proven from computer analysis made by Dr. Donald Waite. He ran several books of the KJV through the Right Writer program and found that Genesis 1, Exodus 1, and Romans 8 are on the 8th grade level; Romans 1 and Jude are on the 10th grade level; and Romans 3:1-23 is on the 6th grade level.

In the book The Art of Plain Talk (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1946), Dr. Rudolf Flesch analyzed the reading level of various documents and rated them on a scale from Very Easy to Very Difficult. He testified, "The best example of very easy prose (about 20 affixes per 200 words) is the King James Version of the Bible..." Dr. Flesch became famous with the publication of his book Why Johnny Can't Read.

3. THE KJV HAS A SMALL VOCABULARY AND USES SIMPLE WORDS THROUGHOUT. MOST ARE ONLY ONE OR TWO SYLLABLES.

"While Shakespeare used a vocabulary of roughly 37,000 English words, the King James Bible used only 8,000" (John Wesley Sawyer, The Newe Testament by William Tindale, p. 10, quoting BBC TV, "The Story of English," copyright 1986).

4. THE KJV USES SIMPLE WORDS; MOST ARE ONLY ONE OR TWO SYLLABLES.

Consider Psalm 23, for example:

1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Of the 119 words in this Psalm, only 24 are more than two syllables; 19 of those 24 words are two syllables and only 5 are three syllables.

This Psalm illustrates why the King James Bible is called "peerless among literary masterpieces," "unquestionably the most beautiful book in the world," "the noblest monument of English prose," "incomparably the best English translation in its rhythm," "the touchstone of affective power," "matchless in its literary qualities among all English translations," "the supremely literary English translation," "the touchstone of literary excellence," "stylistically the greatest English Bible translation ever produced." These quotes from various men are from the book The Word of God in English by Leland Ryken (Wheaton: Crossway Books, 2002, pp. 270, 267, 258, 259, 206, 188, 163, 62, 51).

5. ACCURACY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SIMPLICITY IN A BIBLE VERSION.

The most important thing in a Bible translation is not simple language but faithfulness to the original. Dr. Waite made the following excellent comment in a recent edition of his newsletter:

"The Bible is not a first grade primer. It is God's book. It is a book that must be diligently read. It is only by 'searching the Scriptures' that we find what pertains to life and death. It tells of creation, of the mighty universe, of the future or the past, of the Mighty God and His wonders, of the Holy Spirit's ministry among Christians, of the Son of God's great sacrifice for sin, of home in Heaven for the believer, and of a fiery hell for the unsaved. How dare we assume that His Word can be capsulated in a comic book [or a version that reads 'like the morning newspaper']."

Also consider this statement by Leland Ryken, a professor of English at Wheaton College:

"An English Bible translation should strive for maximum readability only within the parameters of accurately expressing what the original actually says, including the difficulty inherent in the original text. The crucial question that should govern translation is what the original authors actually wrote, not our speculations over how they would express themselves today or how we would express the content of the Bible. The fact that the New Testament was written in

koine

Greek should not lead translators to translate the Bible in a uniformly colloquial style. Finally, a good translation does not attempt to make the Bible simpler than it was for the original audience" (Leland Ryken,

The

Word of God in English

, pp. 100, 101).

6. PREVIOUS GENERATIONS EDUCATED THE PEOPLE UP TO THE BIBLE, AND THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO TODAY.

"Instead of lowering the Bible to a lowest common denominator, why should we not educate people to rise to the level required to experience the Bible in its full richness and exaltation? Instead of expecting the least from Bible readers, we should expect the most from them. The greatness of the Bible requires the best, not the least. ... The most difficult of modern English translations -- the King James -- is used most by segments of our society that are relatively uneducated as defined by formal education. ... research has shown repeatedly that people are capable of rising to surprising and even amazing abilities to read and master a subject that is important to them. ... Previous generations did not find the King James Bible, with its theological heaviness, beyond their comprehension. Nor do readers and congregations who continue to use the King James translation find it incomprehensible. Neither of my parents finished grade school, and they learned to understand the King James Bible from their reading of it and the preaching they heard based on it. We do not need to assume a theologically inept readership for the Bible. Furthermore, if modern readers are less adept at theology than they can and should be, it is the task of the church to educate them, not to give them Bible translations that will permanently deprive them of the theological content that is really present in the Bible." (Leland Ryken, The Word of God in English, pp. 107, 109)

7. THERE ARE MANY TOOLS AVAILABLE TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE KJV.

Following are a few of these:

The Bible Word List from the Trinitarian Bible Society.

The Concise King James Bible Dictionary, available from Way of Life Literature.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

The Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible & Christianity.

The Defined King James Bible available from Bible for Today, 800 Park Ave., Collingswood, NJ 08108.