Koran: Help?

[Parmaynu]

The Muslim is much more faithful to his holy book. Islamic faith is legalistic in form and practice. So there is a faithfulness to the letter of the Koran. Unorthodox belief and practice is anthema. It can get you killed. Just read the headlines or talk to missionaries or miltary personnel serving in these cultures. Of course western practice of this religion is toned down why? Now, that would be an interesting discussion. But the Koran itself is an easy read and pretty direct in what it commands. There is not much room to misread or de-emphasize. I am reading at this moment with highlighter in hand. There is a threat to all who don't embrace and obey its commands.

Firstly I appreciate your response. I will not deny that Islam is considerably more legalistic than many religions, but since you are reading 'with highlighter in hand' might I trouble you for some evidence regarding the danger to the lives of unorthadox Muslisms? Hitherto I have neglected to consider this and would therefore appreciate any information you could give me.

Your question is fair...I have had two friends in seminary who converted to Christianity and they currently live in fear for their lives by members of their family. Salman Rushdie is still nervous they tell me. But, for drifting from orthodox thought I have no educated comment other than to say the culture has a tendency to see things very black and white. You have caught me rushing around on a Friday afternoon with family responsibility pressing me. Parmaynu, I will take the challenge to pour over the Qur'an this weekend and hopefully answer your question or admit I don't know or can't find it. Does your question have in basis in some personal experience?

No, my question has no basis in personal experience it is simply a topic which interests me. I appreciate what you have told me so far and as such I do not wish to make any more demands on your time; instead I will look into the matter myself (provided of course that I have the time) Thanks very much for your input.

[ayin jade]

It is not advisable to encourage people to read the quran, or any false belief UNLESS they are either led by the Lord to do so, or unless they are well armored and spiritually mature. Otherwise to encourage it can cause harm to those not mature in faith.

You might want to read books by Ergun and Emir Caner on islam. You can find those in a Christian bookstore. Also Reasoning from the Scriptures with muslims by Ron Rhodes.

Before anyone asks, Ive read the quran and haddith. Found a lot of stuff that is interesting. For example, if an immam issues a fatwa, no matter how extreme, or how much you might not like it, you CANNOT go against it. On February 23,1998 5 muslim caliphates signed a fatwa declaring war on America.

In part, it states:

On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty God: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

These terrorists were not a fringe group that changed the quran to suit their desires, they were following the quran and its teachings to the letter. According to the quran and haddith (a collection of stories and sayings of the prophet Mohammed and almost as important as the quran itself), the infidel (kafir) is to be conquered or converted. Muslims who die in the struggle against infidels (jihad) will be translated to the highest level of paradise. Much of this comes from the haddith but the foundations are in the quran.

From the mouth of Allah (the quran) jihad is continuing warfare against the infidel. It does NOT refer primarily to a struggle for personal piety as some apologists insist. Jihad is fought on the fronts of politics, warfare and culture. Suras 2:190, 2:191, 2:193 all refer to killing the infidel for Allah

[peaceafire]

Bless You Jade for bringing clarity to this toddler just learning to chew on meat...I was especially thankful that I did not have to turn to literature outside the Holy Bible to understand the precepts to the violence in our world today.

[Leonard]

Well Copper Scroll, unless you have SOME source for refuting the idea it's a very violent book, don't you think you ought to not be commenting at all?

I've read the Koran (it's only about as long as the New Testament), and I assure you, it is UTTERLY different than the holy books of other religions. The MAIN thrust of the Koran is murder!

[David from New Bern]

It is certainly desirable to be an open minded person and to discuss issues fairly such as the topic of this thread. And I consider myself humble enough to believe I could be wrong on issues I feel very passionate. But it is also a character weakness not to be decisive with the information you hold in your hand. While intellectual banter is entertaining and often revealing, the discernment of the Spirit must be acted on. History both Biblical and secular will tell you that revenge is at the core of this religion. Deep seeded resentment that acts out.

Edited April 8, 2006 by David from New Bern

[John3;16]

Parmaynu

This is a copy of a post that I placed on a Muslim/Islamic board, I would like to hear your opion on this subject.

I have a question in reguard to terrorists, I know they misinterpret the teaching of the Quran to justify numerous injustices and killings, including the killing of people of the Islamic faith who disagree with their version (interpretation) of the Quran. The justification that they (terrorists) use is that the U.S.A. was occupying Muslim territory, and specifically because the U.S. had established bases in Saudi Arabia, but the fact is that these bases were established to help defend Muslim territory against a Dictator who had ambitions to seize and control a country that could not defend itself due to the military Superiority of Iraq over the military capabilities of Kuwait. And if Sadom decided he would like to invade Saudi Arabia he also had military superiority over their military, and even if many Muslims rose up to retaliate such an evasion, there would have been many atrocities and much more loss of life. Just think of the chaos that would have ensued following such an invasion and the civil wars that would follow. So the presence of U.S. forces averted such calamities that could have arisen. And in light of this, the terrorists are fighting against a nation that is an ally to those sovereign nations such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, therefore, I believe that their cause is unfounded and not inline with the Quran as justification for such acts of retaliation. America (U.S.A.) has no goal of occupying any other nations, even when we went to war with other nations and conquered those nations, such as Germany and Japan during the second world war, we did not establish them as states of our government, or take control of their people, what we did was to returned control back to their people, and allowed them to self govern themselves, and if Hitler had not been an aggressor there would be little that could have been done to remove him, but because he chose to invade allies of the U.S. and of other nations of Europe war was declared, and this brutal dictator who

[Copper Scroll]

Well Copper Scroll, unless you have SOME source for refuting the idea it's a very violent book, don't you think you ought to not be commenting at all?

I've read the Koran (it's only about as long as the New Testament), and I assure you, it is UTTERLY different than the holy books of other religions. The MAIN thrust of the Koran is murder!

That's fair if you've made this determination after reading the book. Making this determination before reading it is the problem I'm addressing here. I've simply been making a plea for fairness and objectivity. But since I don't have anything to offer the OP on it's own terms, I'll take your advice and shut up.