The Rapture

[billie]

Yes, Axe, I believe that oftimes we give the Holy Spirit far too little credit. I think this comes from living in the West where we've got so many of these "helps" at our disposal. We tend to rely on these things so much, we start considering them vital os necessary. We're spoiled!

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, Axe, I believe that oftimes we give the Holy Spirit far too little credit. I think this comes from living in the West where we've got so many of these "helps" at our disposal. We tend to rely on these things so much, we start considering them vital os necessary. We're spoiled!

Exactly what I was thinking! We are a spoiled, self-indulgent people. Great, billie! Nice to see you tonight!

[larryt]

Yes, Axe, I believe that oftimes we give the Holy Spirit far too little credit. I think this comes from living in the West where we've got so many of these "helps" at our disposal. We tend to rely on these things so much, we start considering them vital os necessary. We're spoiled!

Lest we never forget, the Holy Spirit that is the author and interpreter of the Scripture will never contradict the Word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. No new revelations. Just greater depth of understanding the Word already given.

Here is a Question for the pre-trib rapture folk.

Why did not our Lord when asked directly about His coming back not explain any such secret catching away to the disciples?

Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Vs 4-14 tell us what are not signs of the end.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation starts with the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

How plain can it be?

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The trumpet the angels gathering the elect.

Again, WHY DOESN'T JESUS TELL THE DISCIPLES OF THE PLAN WHEN THEY ASK DIRECTLY?

LT

[Floatingaxe]

Jesus was teaching the signs of His coming, and the end of the world. That is what He was asked about.

[larryt]

Jesus was teaching the signs of His coming, and the end of the world. That is what He was asked about.

So then why didn't He just say "My coming will be in two parts. First to gather my bride, the church(you all) and then to gather the rest of the elect after the tribulation?"

He didn't say that. He said every eye shall see Him. The same way He left. Coming in the clouds. Where does the Holy Spirit show you that there is a secret catching away?

Elijah's catching up was not secret. The people all knew he was going to be caught up. They went looking for him.

Noah wasn't secretly preserved from the wrath of God. He spent probably close to a hundred years building the ark, and we are told was a a preacher of righteousness before the flood. I think he warned the ungodly of the coming destruction.

Enoch was the only possible surprise catching away. I think he is going to be one of the 2 tribulation prophets though. It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement.

The reason you cannot answer the questions is there are no biblical answers. If there are why not tell us so we can all be enlightened.

LT

[irishcowboy]

Christ did tell them.....

Daniel was also told the answers also...

others were also told....

and not all the answers are revealed in the Bible... John was given a book, and he was told not to divulge the information, he was also told to eat it..... so, not all the information is known to man...

and only in the days towards the end was the book to be unsealed ( the understanding of the book)

mike

[Floatingaxe]

*sigh* I do believe in a rapture--and it won't be so secret! Everyone will notice it!

[Guest man]

The reason you cannot answer the questions is there are no biblical answers. If there are why not tell us so we can all be enlightened.

LT

Larry google, doomsday and rapture. You'll get a million hits to websites that feeds this stuff. I agree with you I have yet to see any biblical support of this at all.

They claim they get their teaching's from the bible but when asked to produce scripture evidence they are silent and their silence speaks volumes.

[irishcowboy]

Daniel even speaks of the times of the end, when he and the Lord are talking...

Daniel 12, even tells Daniel not to worry about it, that he will rest.

Matthew, mark, and luke, Christ tells us how it wil lbe at the end, and then tells us that some of this generation( as all this is coming about) will not taste death... that does not say that everyone will have a physical death, that is saying some will not have a physical death....

now, Enoch was not the only one to be caught away, He walked with God and was no more...

Elijah was taken in a whirl wind, and was no longer here...

that gives us two people, not just one and also tells us that not everyone will die the physical death, and in Daniel, it tells of those that are burried coming out of the ground.....

never has the rapture been a secret, if it were so, why do so many people know about it?????

the actual time and day of it is known only to God, as far as the rapture hapening, it is written about for more then 2000 years..... it was not understood until about the middle of the 1800's....

read Daniel and you will see what it says about knowledge, and travel ( technology )....

we have knowledge at our finger tips, more knowledge then ever before,

we are running to and fro, ever which way we can. we can not even stop to get a proper nights rest, cause we are absorbed in being constantly on the go, collecting more and more knowledge....

all i can say, is that those that choose not to believe, are choosing their own way, those that choose Christ, are choosing theirs....why choose the way of no hope....

just like one that says we are living in the 21st century, we should be relying on our own knowledge and power instead of God's Knowledge and Power.... like they did in the 1st century......

GOD IS THE SAME, YESTERDAY, TODAY, TOMORROW AND FOREVER.... this includes the 4000 years BC 2000 years BC, 5 years BC, 17 years AD 500 years AD and yes, even 2006 AD God is still the same and is still in control....

mike

[irishcowboy]

if technology has improved through out history, then why did it take so long for man to come up with anything other then feet, horse/donkey, and wagons, and boats to transport themselves from Abrahams time until the middle of the 1800's?

there has been found a rental agreement for a wagon with boundries set forth in the document that was specific about where that wagon could go, this document was dated to the time frame of Abraham.

and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

and the Lord said to Daniel...

O Daniel, Shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.........and I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, ans sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be a time, times and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the Holy people, all these things shall be finished and I heard but i understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

and He (the Lord) said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.......But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

sorry, just received a call, must be on the road....

if you choose not to believe in the rapture, then that is your choice.....

Christ even spoke of this, that some will not taste death, that alone is proof that not everyone will die...

Christ will not return until the end of the Great Tribulation Period, and then he will be coming to make His kingdom on earth.....

if there was no such thing why is it told to us that those that are dead in Christ shall rise, and those that remain and in Christ will follow????? we are told that we will meet Him (Christ) in the clouds.....

people are waiting for a man to walk this earth again, only thing is, the one that will walk it first is the anti-christ..... until the 3.5 year mark into the trib....

mike