Influences of Rock Music

[dgolvach]

What about Ringo?

Dan

[Axxman]

You cannot take this line of logic down the road very far at all. I agree 100% that we should be listening to music that builds up both us and Christ, however I find nothing wrong with listening to secular music as long as it does not use foul language or promote a message that is anti-christian. I won't be trashing my Toto or Fleetwood Mac any time soon, and I certainly do not feel any conviction to do so, as I definitely did with the heavy metal stuff I had. It went bye bye. From the purely support standpoint, not a listening stand point, review that statement, because if you are only going to support christian artists, then that means you have to take it to the next level and make sure that everything you buy supports only christians and you won't be purchasing much of anything. You won't have a car, or a computer, or a house. You won't be able to go out to eat.

Like someone else said, we are to transform the world around us, not shun it. In, not of.

I am not trying to change people's convictions as much as I'm trying to encourage them to purchase and support their fellow Christians in ministry. I don't know the first thing about Toto or F-Mac so thats up to you. I think I would be very surprised if they did not have some ungodly lyrics or lifestyles that you support by purchasing their music, but again, thats up to you. I would like to think that you could be just as passionate about Christian music as you are about Toto.

I don't see how my view on secular music translates to how I purchase other things. Music, art, movies are forms of entertainment. Music is spoken of throughout the Bible as a way to praise and worship our Saviour. If I am going to buy a form of entertainment then I want to be entertained by things that uplift me. As I said before, its also about the influence that you promote when you purchase secular music. Now when I buy a car, I don't see the car dealership as having a secular influence...while they may employ secular minded people...their influnce is selling cars, not a secular lifestyle. However, in my town we have one of those car dealership owners that is "everywhere"...biggest car-dealer in town and he is popular. He sells all types, but mostly Chevy. My mom worked in his office. One day he pops up on the news saying he is a homosexual. Because of his popularity, he was now becoming a secular influence. He is known as much for selling cars, as he is for "being brave" for coming out. I won't buy a car there, and my mom quit working for him. I rather pay more for a car than support his business.

In our city we have a Christian Business Directory. Its far from foolproof, but I often look up businesses for services out of that directory simply because I feel better supporting a fellow believer. In regards to my entertainment choices...I am VERY pro-christian because Christians tend to provide the type of entertainment my soul craves....and secular, non-christians, do not.

Just did a quick google on toto lyrics..."She knows the Devil, and the Devil knows me." That was a quick search too. I could go deeper, but for me thats enough to remove the music from my home.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Axxman

[Artemus Prime]

I wonder, then, how this mode of thinking works as regards to witnessing/sharing Christ's love with others...how can we as Christians relate to our fellow man and bring him to a saving knowledge of the grace within us if we're unwilling to walk the same road? Our job is not to be "Kingdom Monitors" guarding the gates of Heaven from the "riff-raff" which, if I remember correctly, are the very people Jesus came to save. I absolutely adore classical music, so should I stop listening to Bach or Wagner because they were not Believers? I don't believe that because Cobalt enjoys Toto, his relationship with his Saviour is in jeopardy. This literally just popped into my brain as I'm sitting here typing this, so how does one respond to Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ?...

[abbershay]

http://fishesandloavesweb.com/v-web/bullet...&highlight=

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Axxman,

I truly respect your convictions and I believe you should stand firm on your beliefs.

However, I do draw the line at you telling others they must do the same.

You see, this is your conviction, not a Biblical mandate. What some people find offensive, others do not. It is completely subjective.

I happen to agree on some of the secular music. Not all though. I listen to 50's and 60's rock and roll, unless the lyrics are offensive.

Also, concerning movies. I don't only watch Christian movies. That runs along the same lines as music, I watch what interests me and try to pick movies that do not conflict with my Christian beliefs.

The bottom line is that we have the FREEDOM in Messiah to make these personal choices, but we must be careful so as not to cause our brother to stumble. We should be willing to lay any of these things down if it bothered our brother or comprised our witness. That is all you can ask others to do, not insist they stop doing something they do not feel convicted is wrong.

There was a similar discussion in Corinth concerning foods offered to idols. (see below)

So, I'll tell you, if you came to my house and I was playing or watching or reading or eating something that was offensive to you, I would put it away.

1 Corinthians 8

Food Offered to Idols

1Now concerning[a] food offered to idols: we know that "all of us possess knowledge." This "knowledge" puffs up, but love builds up. 2If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.

4Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one." 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth--as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"-- 6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

7However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating[c] in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged,[d] if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12Thus, sinning against your brothers[e] and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

13Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

[Gerioke]

What about Ringo?

Dan

Is Ringo a witch? I know he was a conductor on Thomas the Tank Engine.

[Gerioke]

I'm surprised LarryT hasn't showed up yet. :0

[Axxman]

Alrighty guys...

Maybe I misrepresented my views. I'm not sure what happened, but I am not actually disagreeing with alot of what you guys say. Sure, I disagree somewhat, but thats just normal. Vickilynn I find myself agreeing with you ALOT...you seem to have it right, and I can't really argue with what you are saying.

Since the onset of this discussion my ONLY intent was to encourage people to support Christian music MORE. I wish Christians would not buy secular music, and instead buy Christian. Now in trying to make my point, I gave several examples, which I admitted made me sound a bit legalistic. I am not trying to be a legalistic, stuck-in-the-mud kinda guy. I just want people to be aware of what they are supporting and maybe inspire a change of heart in regards to Christian music.

Why do percieve that a change of perception is needed? Good question. What really got me going on this was the two links at the top of this thread. The persons involved had some VERY negative words about Christian music (and some people I know and have met, and have worked with.) This bothered me. Compounded with some of the discussions in this thread about secular music, I just wanted to put a positive spin on the Christian industry vs. secular. I stand by my claim that there are NO secular artists out there that accurately represent what we as Christians should look for in our entertainment choices. But I have said again, and again, and again, that those are personal choices between you and God. I am okay with that.

Cobalt...it was not my intention to try and pass judgement on you, or anyone. If it came across that way, I apologize. If you listen to Christian music 80% of the time, that is awesome. Thats all I I've been trying to say. Support fellow believers more than secular artists. I listened to secular artists for many years...even when I worked in Christian music. There just came a time for me when I noticed a disparity amongst Christians concerning secualr artists, and it bothered me. In my life, I am very extreme. Its either hot or cold. Yes or no. On or Off. Its almost like a competitive thing in me. But thats just me, and I accept that not everyone is like that. I will always try and persuade Christians to be 100% against non-christian artists...and support Christian music. What you do is up to you.

Vickilynn...Should my family ever be honored enough to meet you and your family...you can leave the music on. I am not that bad

[WarMonkeyMan]

I don't get it.

I shouldn't be listening to music by secular artists?

Heck, it's good music!

[Emily~Anne]

I don't get it.

I shouldn't be listening to music by secular artists?

Heck, it's good music!

Such as Ozzy Osbourne and that Marilyn Manson? No.