Total Depravity

[endure4salvation]

S2B, the more I think about it, it would take me hours to fully explain what I am trying to say, when this website explains it so much better than I could. Enjoy and let me know what you think or if you have questions.

God bless you!

[endure4salvation]

I found this to be interesting...

Click here

[BlindSeeker]

godrulz, would you please expound on the "limited atonement?"

[ColleenLovesMischief]

"limited atonement?"

What in the world is that?

[Adstar]

Limited atonement is just an doctrine derived from the calvanist doctrine of predestination.

calvinists believe that Christ died only for the elect, that is, for those whom God has chosen from before the foundation of the world. God elected an entire church and all the individual members of that church; and He gave that entire church, with all its individual members, to Christ. Christ is their representative-head. In the judgment of God He represents them, takes the place of them, and of them only, at the cross.

So atonement or the blood covering of the Messiah was only for the people who God caused to believe in and accept Jesus as Lord and savor. So according to calvinism Jesus act on the cross was not for all men but only for the elect that God had pre- selected from the beginning of the world to believe in Jesus.

ALL Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: I am not a calvinist.

[endure4salvation]

The verses used to 'prove' limited atonement include:

his sheep (John 10:11); his friends (John 15:13); "many" (Heb. 9:2)--'his' being Jesus of course!

This of course denies clear verses that say that God died for "the whole world" (John 3:16) and wants "all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3).

[godrulz]

S2B, the more I think about it, it would take me hours to fully explain what I am trying to say, when this website explains it so much better than I could. Enjoy and let me know what you think or if you have questions.

God bless you!

Endure: How do you find the rest of the website? It looks like a goldmine, but I wonder if you agree with all the positions. (I have yet to explore it all)

[endure4salvation]

S2B, the more I think about it, it would take me hours to fully explain what I am trying to say, when this website explains it so much better than I could.  Enjoy and let me know what you think or if you have questions.

God bless you! 

Endure: How do you find the rest of the website? It looks like a goldmine, but I wonder if you agree with all the positions. (I have yet to explore it all)

Well, it is a Christian website, not a Baptist, Catholic, Episcapailian, Pentacostal, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc...

It is a CHRISTIAN ONLY website, not affiliated with any denomination.

They are against all of Calvin's teachings, so they also deny Eternal Security as well.

The main site is:

bible.ca

They have a WHOLE lot of stuff on there--you probably could never finish reading all the stuff. I have enjoyed this site a whole lot--let me know what you think.

[godrulz]

They do have a directory of Churches, so it seems like a 'denomination' or sect. There are only 3 of their churches in my province (State). I am sure much of the content is helpful (I am not a Calvinist either). I do not wish to debate the following on this thread (Depravity).

Here is where I personally disagree with their theology (you may or may not):

1) Soteriology: Baptismal regeneration (vs ordinance) vs faith alone in person and work of Christ (baptism is an important step of obedience and discipleship, but it is not the point of sin forgiveness...cf. thief on cross or death bed conversions) (I think Endure agrees with the necessity of baptism for salvation; cf. Mormons).

2) Eschatology: ?preterist/historical 70 A.D. fulfillment Mt. 24 vs future (to us) pre-trib. rapture, etc.

3) Pneumatology/ecclesiology: anti-charismatic/Penecostal (very weak arguments against it + looks at abuses and lunatic fringe of the movement to discredit biblical model/Pentecostal hermeneutic cf. I Corinthians...dealth with the use and misuse of the gifts; it is not a treatise against charismata).

4) Ecclesiology: 'No instruments in worship' (legalistic group cf. some Church of Christ groups). A clear case can be made for instruments from Psalms. Worship style is cultural within parameters. We worship in spirit and truth with our whole being. Instruments are amoral.

? more to come?

Perhaps there are more mainstream. credible sights for counter-cult and doctrinal information (there are many sects of Christianity with pet doctrines that become divisive mountains).

[Guest shadow2b]

--endure--I visited the site----what i saw was a website that needs someone to teach them to "spell"---& not to condemn anyone & everyone that believes the gifts of "THE HOLY-SPIRIT" are for today--Yet their claims seem to convey the message that anyone who speaks in tongues are deceived & a demon is speaking thru them---------

----Whoever is typing all this up needs to get a dictionary & use it {often}---however they do expose the cults of hagin-copeland--hinn-rodney howard browne--the selling of {gift of the month}trinkets for "your monthly tithe--love-offering-etc--etc-etc---------

What comes thru this site "abundantly" is the hatred of ALL "pentecostals--charismatics"--calvanists------From some of your posts I have seen you quote them almost verbatim-------

Sorry , i just really don't want to fill my head with such vehement hatred.........

---I was filled with this type of hatred "before" the LORD SAVED US & i donot care to return to or visit that state again, it was a very lonely,suspicious, mean time & I trusted no-one at anytime for any reason......-----------------------Gary--