"The church" and "discussions in threads"

[Openly Curious]

no vrjenny,

it is not you who "pushed my crazy button" lol I like that term by the way Also yes, I did start to read your post before I started this thread lol but it's been in my mind for a while and I just haven't really wanted to post it for whatever reason. But it something that greatly irritates me. I am not saying that people can't get along and shouldn't respect each other because of doctrinal differences. But what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to try and say that a bunch of people of different doctrines (either of God or of the devil) and expect them to mix .... I know the last thing I want to hear is that my beliefs are of the devil, but to say that to someone is then highly offensiee and obviously, people take it offensivly... It is somethign really really hard to work out and I think it is almost pointless to try with this.... I don't know.... what can I say? I believe in unity OF DOCTRINE....

Hello kittylover,

just want to say that there will never be unity in doctrine as long as we live unfortunately I wish there could be but because we only know in part as it tells us in 1 Corinthians 13 we all can only speak the parts we have been given none of us has the whole picture of the entire truth. That is yet to come when we go on home to be with the Lord as we no longer will know in part but in total fullness.

We are to be in unity of the "Faith" and not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. meaning we are to stand firm on our individual convictions and stay true to our faith in the word we believe. As is taught to us in Ephesians 4:1-16 we are to "endeavour" to keep the unity of the Spirit of God among us in the bond of peace (vs 3). Till we all come in the unity of the "faith" and of the knowledge of the Son of God (vs 13,14) so we want be tossed around in our faith by different doctrines that crop up among us.

We are to keep the unity of the Spirit of God in our midst and to have our faith established in who Jesus Christ is and what he came to do for all men the same. And keep his prescene ever abiding with us and this will keep our anchor secure and keep us steadfast in our faith unmovealbe and a unshakeable faith. Jesus our solid Rock. Their unfortunately once again will never be unity of doctrine but I wish their could be. But the love of God that he showed unto mankind while we all where yet sinners is what makes us all have fellowship with one another as we share our faith.

loving blessings

OC

[kittylover0991]

If it is not possible to have unity, I think it is interesting then that that is one of the things that Paul tried to bring to the attention of the church of Corinth.. the divisions among them, dealing with communion, don't forget about marraige, and then about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.... I guess it is just me, but it doesn't seem reasonable for Paul to write the Corinthians about a problem that can't be taken care of before glory....

I know that in my church there is unity of doctrine... but in "The Church" that everyone refers to, there is no unity whatsoever. Just what I see.

[Openly Curious]

If it is not possible to have unity, I think it is interesting then that that is one of the things that Paul tried to bring to the attention of the church of Corinth.. the divisions among them, dealing with communion, don't forget about marraige, and then about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.... I guess it is just me, but it doesn't seem reasonable for Paul to write the Corinthians about a problem that can't be taken care of before glory....

I know that in my church there is unity of doctrine... but in "The Church" that everyone refers to, there is no unity whatsoever. Just what I see.

This is true that you say kittylover and it is also true in what you observe with your eyes as well. I agree that the Corinthian church seemed like the most messed up church in all of the churches Paul started but at the same time they were the most riches of all the churches in regards to spiritual gifts they had them in abundance in their midst and in operation. The church had many problems like you say and they had to be addressed and worked out. Some of the problems were very serious ones in fact. Incest and getting drunk during communion time they were holding to various doctrines taught by different people some where saying they was of Appollos and so on to name a few.

It is alot easier to deal with internal matters within a local church setting than it is to handle these matters on a world wide ministry such as worthy boards because of the vast amount of diversity that it entails in my opinion.

Local churches affairs are handle internally by the believers of that local body. Paul had started the church in Corinth he was the spiritual father the apostle of the church and he trained ministers to be over that body of believers and left the church in their charge while he was away as he did all the other churches he started in Asia as well.

Usually a local body of believers who gather at the same church to worship God are in unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace as they are people of like mindedness who share similar beliefs to one another and things are handled accordingly as they have set themselves up to deal with matters that arise and become problems in the midst and the believers are more than qualified to handle and judge these matters in their midst without going to public court to do so. As each body is governored by some process that has been set in order to deal with issues that arise.

But where there is flesh and blood involved there will be problems. People will not always agree on things people's judgments will not be the same as the one sitting next to them for they will have their own thoughts towards the matter and make their judgments based on that. People view things from all different kinds of angles and from walks of life that we all go through that are so diverse from one another as a whole all over the globe we believers are all different and diverse in our thinking but when it all comes down to it there is only one Father, one Lord, one Spirit one Saviour, one Body, one Faith, one Baptism that all believers belong to and have in common and have unity in faith in and that is our Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified for all of us it is our faith that binds us together and causes us to break the bread of communion and fellowship with one another. For there is one Lord and shepherd and one fold we all are a part of which is the Lord's body. And it is our faith in the finished work of the cross that makes that union and fellowship with Christ universal to all on the earth.

There will be diverse doctrines always will be in our world. That doesn't mean to say you and your local church you attend don't believe likemindedly on doctrines. But flesh and blood will be a problem to the church world as a whole as long as it exists.

OC

[LadyRaven]

no vrjenny,

it is not you who "pushed my crazy button" lol I like that term by the way Also yes, I did start to read your post before I started this thread lol but it's been in my mind for a while and I just haven't really wanted to post it for whatever reason. But it something that greatly irritates me. I am not saying that people can't get along and shouldn't respect each other because of doctrinal differences. But what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to try and say that a bunch of people of different doctrines (either of God or of the devil) and expect them to mix .... I know the last thing I want to hear is that my beliefs are of the devil, but to say that to someone is then highly offensiee and obviously, people take it offensivly... It is somethign really really hard to work out and I think it is almost pointless to try with this.... I don't know.... what can I say? I believe in unity OF DOCTRINE....

Hello kittylover,

just want to say that there will never be unity in doctrine as long as we live unfortunately I wish there could be but because we only know in part as it tells us in 1 Corinthians 13 we all can only speak the parts we have been given none of us has the whole picture of the entire truth. That is yet to come when we go on home to be with the Lord as we no longer will know in part but in total fullness.

We are to be in unity of the "Faith" and not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. meaning we are to stand firm on our individual convictions and stay true to our faith in the word we believe. As is taught to us in Ephesians 4:1-16 we are to "endeavour" to keep the unity of the Spirit of God among us in the bond of peace (vs 3). Till we all come in the unity of the "faith" and of the knowledge of the Son of God (vs 13,14) so we want be tossed around in our faith by different doctrines that crop up among us.

We are to keep the unity of the Spirit of God in our midst and to have our faith established in who Jesus Christ is and what he came to do for all men the same. And keep his prescene ever abiding with us and this will keep our anchor secure and keep us steadfast in our faith unmovealbe and a unshakeable faith. Jesus our solid Rock. Their unfortunately once again will never be unity of doctrine but I wish their could be. But the love of God that he showed unto mankind while we all where yet sinners is what makes us all have fellowship with one another as we share our faith.

loving blessings

OC

I agree, OC.

[LadyRaven]

If it is not possible to have unity, I think it is interesting then that that is one of the things that Paul tried to bring to the attention of the church of Corinth.. the divisions among them, dealing with communion, don't forget about marraige, and then about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.... I guess it is just me, but it doesn't seem reasonable for Paul to write the Corinthians about a problem that can't be taken care of before glory....

I know that in my church there is unity of doctrine... but in "The Church" that everyone refers to, there is no unity whatsoever. Just what I see.

I've not spent years studying this topic, though I probably should spend more time doing so...but here's a few thoughts off the top of my very tired head...

Is it not possible that there was more going on here than just disagreements over doctrine? I've been in churches where the doctrine is spot on, but the humanness of the congregants almost sunk the church. The pastor would preach sermon after sermon about humility, peacemaking, personality conflicts, etc... eventually, usually about the same time, the parties involved would come to their senses and reconcile and everyone that got sucked in sat back and went "I can't believe I let myself get worked up over THIS" and peace settled over the church once more. Perhaps this was part of the problem...

You have to also remember that in corinth and in other churches during biblical times, they were laying the foundations for what is taught and done now, it is their example the rest of us were to follow. I'm sure Paul had a handle on how future generations might perceive the history of the "early church" as he was well versed in what was said and taught about the children of Israel. people don't get struck dead nowdays for lying to the church about how much money they give, but they were in NT times. This says to me there was something extremely important about those times. Perhaps this was part of the equation...

Also we will never be completely sanctified until glory either. This does not mean that our spiritual guardians and those who care about us are supposed to allow us to just sin willy nilly until we die because we'll never be perfect. They are still called to rebuke us. IF the church of Corinth should have known the truth and the truth wasn't supposed to be a topic of debate and they were debating it...it was the duty of the apostles to rebuke that congregation, even if they could never reach perfect knowledge until death. They still could have done better than they obviously were doing...

[anitarose]

I wouldn't be surprised if something happened with this thread one way or the other, but I find it interesting that so many "Christians" say "hey, we should be getting along! we have different opinions on doctrinal issues, but we shoudl get along as brothers and sisters in Christ"..... this is starting to drive me crazy... I am not pointing out one person in particular becuase I have recently done this same thing, even with the thought of leaving these boards. We promote ecumenalism and yet we wonder why we fight... We promote "non denominationalism" and yet we wonder why we fight about doctrinal issues and then say we shouldn't argue as brothers and sisters in Christs. That's like saying, "Let's feed the fire, and hope it goes out on it's own", but it doesn't work that way folks!

It is truly ridiculous that we sit here and argue, but at the same time, it as ridiculous to say "oh, we can all get along". Paul got onto the church of Corinth because they had "divisions among them" and same as we have hear. Yet, we expect each other to get along and agree. This sounds like an oxymoron to me...

I totally agree....here's a good example: Lady Raven and I are friends. Not really good friends, we don't know each and other that well, but we are typing friends here on the board. There's only one area we disagree on: our belief in Word of Faith. She doesn't believe it and I do with my whole heart. Does that stop us from being friends? NO. A THOUSAND TIMES NO.

For the most part we agree, except in this area, and we love each other enough to say that "this is what I believe and I respect what you believe even though I think it's wrong". Is this a wrong thing to think? By no means! I think that for the most part everyone gets along---it's when the ones who aren't here enough who stick their denominational noses in where they don't belong that cause the problems.

I just have to be careful at what I say because I could cause a firestorm of controversy and end up getting myself banned. I think everyone has to be careful with their words.

Anyway, my five cents included---inflation, ya know.

Anita & Chikachu

*note from Chikachu: I have no opinion whatsoever...if you give me food I'll love you no matter what!*

[LadyRaven]

I wouldn't be surprised if something happened with this thread one way or the other, but I find it interesting that so many "Christians" say "hey, we should be getting along! we have different opinions on doctrinal issues, but we shoudl get along as brothers and sisters in Christ"..... this is starting to drive me crazy... I am not pointing out one person in particular becuase I have recently done this same thing, even with the thought of leaving these boards. We promote ecumenalism and yet we wonder why we fight... We promote "non denominationalism" and yet we wonder why we fight about doctrinal issues and then say we shouldn't argue as brothers and sisters in Christs. That's like saying, "Let's feed the fire, and hope it goes out on it's own", but it doesn't work that way folks!

It is truly ridiculous that we sit here and argue, but at the same time, it as ridiculous to say "oh, we can all get along". Paul got onto the church of Corinth because they had "divisions among them" and same as we have hear. Yet, we expect each other to get along and agree. This sounds like an oxymoron to me...

I totally agree....here's a good example: Lady Raven and I are friends. Not really good friends, we don't know each and other that well, but we are typing friends here on the board. There's only one area we disagree on: our belief in Word of Faith. She doesn't believe it and I do with my whole heart. Does that stop us from being friends? NO. A THOUSAND TIMES NO.

For the most part we agree, except in this area, and we love each other enough to say that "this is what I believe and I respect what you believe even though I think it's wrong". Is this a wrong thing to think? By no means! I think that for the most part everyone gets along---it's when the ones who aren't here enough who stick their denominational noses in where they don't belong that cause the problems.

I just have to be careful at what I say because I could cause a firestorm of controversy and end up getting myself banned. I think everyone has to be careful with their words.

Anyway, my five cents included---inflation, ya know.

Anita & Chikachu

*note from Chikachu: I have no opinion whatsoever...if you give me food I'll love you no matter what!*

[undone]

I understand how kittylover feels, the lack of unity amoungst brothers and sisters in Christ can be disheartening at times. I'm especially concerned with this problem on a Christian discussion board when you know that people who are curious about our faith are peering in on our discussions all the time without necessarily making themselves known. But what can you do?

On the upside, discussion boards like this are probably a step in the right direction towards BUILDING unity. Before the internet, it was all too easy for us to be segregated, tight lipped, and close minded. This is a great platform to discuss our differences and measure them against the Word of God - together. People will tend to say what's REALLY on their mind on a board like this and not be concerned with what others might think if they say it. I know from my experience at church, people are far less likely to speak their minds/hearts or ask what might be considered a "dumb" question for fear of looking stupid, unspiritual, shallow in their faith, or rebellious.

I've posted questions, even recently, that I probably wouldn't bring up with my fellow church members (for various reasons). But I'm glad I asked them. I've recieved some valuable insight.

I encourage you to stay and know that there are mostly good people, though they may come across harsh, who want to help and are learning as they go as well.

[kittylover0991]

Hey anita, I have only one question What do you mean by people "sticking their denominational noses in where they don't belong" lol you know I wouldn't be asking for names or direct quotes, but I am particularly curious as to what that means.

Well, only one thing..... Getting slightly away from the topic of the board, why did Paul tell the church that they had divisions among them? What are the benefits in a church of having unity of doctrine? I know that there are a few things that I have found... for one, I'm not usually questioning of what Pastor says becuase I know for sure He is a man of God.... I know that when I go there is going to be truth preached and I know for sure that the Holy Spirit will move....Again to go with before, I know there aren't false doctrines being taught and for the most part believed...honestly, especially dealing in core areas like salvation through Jesus Christ alone(not of works is what I mean), believer's baptism, only KJV, tongues not for churches today for reasons based on God's Word.. I know there is not going to be contemporary music and I know that the deacons will take care of it if there is a trolll just kidding about that last one. But seriously, I have noticed that with unity, there is fellowship. I konw the bible talks about being unequally yoked(okay, that's with unbelievers) but also "can two walk together except they be agreed". I find it extremely hard to have such a deep and strong relationship with someone who does not believe what the Bible says. My "friends" at school are no where near as close as the ones at church... My church is a family with unity of doctrine and you know? It makes it at lot easier to to ask for advise when you know you can trust it....

I say that becuase I have gone between my old youth pastor and new youth pastor in the past.. I had talked to a girl in my teen group who told me what my old youth pastor did, and then we got a new youth pastor and when I talked to him, he told me something completely different... so I gave up realizing it was all OPINIONs that I was getting, so I went to Pastor who was able to give me some bible verses... okay, that was a bit of rabitt trail, but unity of doctrine seems to be key to a lot of things. This are just a few of the things that I know.

What do you feel are the benefits of unity of doctrine? What is lost when taht is taken away?

[terter]

Sometimes it's not the opinion that's expressed but the attitude that is displayed in expressing it. Some folks seem to think that their opinion is totally right regarding all topics and someone else's is totally wrong. Sometimes I think the thread should start - if you don't believe in x, please don't respond so I can get input from people who have similar views so we can share something and learn.