mortal or immortal soul ?

[TomPJr]

Man you guys have me completely lost as where it is you are trying to go with this discussion...first your preaching that the soul will die...poof!...gone for all eternity, having no consciousness of either torment or glory...but now your jumping back into a belief in immortality of the soul?.... you guys have to be Jehovah's...the only other time I have witnessed this type of confusion in ones beliefs is when encoutering the JW's.

Peace

CJ

Hi CJ,

The problem is that the word 'soul' in the bible does not mean the essence of a person, nor the conscious mind.

It means:

Nephesh - Psyche - Soul

The important passage in Genesis 2:7 sets the scene for this 'window - word' into the nature of personhood. An individual becomes a 'nephesh' from the infusion of divine breath into moulded dust. In physical terms 'nephesh' means, 'neck', 'throat', 'gullet' and came to mean 'life', that 'vital motion' which distinguishes a living being from a corpse.

'Nephesh' has such a variety of senses that we must make a careful definition in each particular case. Meanings overlap and are used side by side. It is easy to end up with contradictory statements about 'nephesh'. Here are some of the central statements about 'nephesh':-

[EricH]

The bible says that we are mortal and we get immortality at the resurection. Do you disputer that?

Strictly speaking the Bible does not say we are mortal. It says that the bodies we currently reside in are mortal.

There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones.

1 Cor 15:50 CSB

That which is mortal (the bodies we possess now) will eventually be swallowed up by the immortal (the eternal bodies we will receive).

Until that time those who die remain unclothed with the Lord. For to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. just as the thief on the cross was promised that on the very day he died He would be with Jesus in paradise.

[TomPJr]

How about the truth ?

Where is immortal soul mentioned in the Bible ?

I have listed several scriptures that man is mortal and the soul can and does die. Jesus himself said so Mat.10 v 28. Since it is an important issue relevant to our salvation how come people are so disinterested and blindly continue to believe a lie ?

______________________________________

Here are all the Scriptures relating to this doctrin.

The body of any being is the outward form or house in which his soul and spirit dwell (Gen. 2:7, 19; John 5:28-29; Matt. 27:52; 1 Cor. 15:34-58; Jas. 2:26; 1 Thess. 5:23; Heb. 10:5-10).

There are spiritual anad natural bodies, or heavenly and earthly bodies; and both kinds are real (1 Cor. 15:40-49).

The soul is the invisible part of all living beings, that feels, the seat of his affections, emotions, passions, and desires, and which gives him self-consciousness and makes him a sentient being (Lev. 23:43; 1 Sam. 22:2; 30:6; 2 Sam. 13:39; 2 Kings 4:27; 23:3; Ps. 107:5, 9, 18, 26; Mark 12:33; Matt. 26:38; John 12:27; Heb. 10:38; Heb. 4:12).

The spirit is that invisible thing part of all living beings that knows. The seat of his intellect, mind, and will, and that which gives him self-determination and makes him a free moral agent and a rational being (1 Cor. 2:11; Matt. 26:41; Exodus 35:21; Job 38:8, 18; Prov. 20:27; Phil. 1:27; Heb. 4:12; Jas. 2:26; 1 Thess. 5:23).

The Bible teaches that unsaved men do not have God's spirit in them (Romans 8:9-16; 1 Cor. 12:13; 2 Cor. 1:22; 6:16-18; Gal. 3:2-5; 4:6; Eph. 1:13; 2 Tim. 1:7; 1 John 4:4-6); that God's spirit is not recieved until the new birth (John 3:1-5; 14:17; Rom. 8:9-16); that there is a difference between the natural spirit of man and beasts (Eccl. 3:21); that there is a difference between breath and spirit (Job 34:15; Ps. 19:7; Luke 12:19; 1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 7:1); and that each creature has a separate spirit which is not a part of God (Numbers 16:22; 27:17; Eccl. 3:21; Ezek. 21:7; Dan. 2:1-3; Mal. 2:15-16; Prov. 16:2; 1 Cor. 2;10-12; 14:32; Heb. 12:9, 23; 1 Thess. 5:23).

Try and substitute breath for soul and spirit in all the above passages and see how ridiculous and impossible such meanings are.

you would do well to do a study of the original texts....

you see the problem is that the words soul and spirit are translated from the same original words sometimes, and different words other times.

Most of the times the word soul is translated from a word that means being, as in human being or creature.

People take the few times it comes from the same word as spirit, or breath of life, and put that meaning over the times it simply means living creature. We are all souls(living creatures)

peace brother.

[kat8585]

tmrfiles said

It is the "physical body" that dies, and not the soul. And it is the physical body that is rasied with a new incorruptable body at resurrection.

Is this the post you were referring to? It doesn't answer the question. What's the point? Where is the scripture to back this up?

[Arthur Durnan]

Bottom Line: Who cares what Friend Beta believes anyways? Her lack of understanding re the biblical places called Hades & Gehenna (two separate places) smacks of cultic fantasy. False cults such as "Jehovah's False Witnesses" and eccentric polygamist Joseph Smith Jr.'s Mormonism - plus, of course, Ellen Gould Harmon White's 19th-century-created "seventh-day Adventism - would all support her unbelief in the doctrine of everlasting punishment for those who die outside of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. One is wildly unimpressed.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Floatingaxe]

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

Today means today! What a load.

Why can you not comprehend that our decayed remains resurrect and become one with our spirit again? Our spirits are alive always. The point is so that we can have physical bodies to do physical work, ruling and reigning in the New Earth.

[HAZARD]

Again, Here are all the Scriptures relating to this doctrin. The Bible deos not lie. Scriptures must be read with an honest and open heart, and the truth will be understood.

The body of any being is the outward form or house in which his soul and spirit dwell (Gen. 2:7, 19; John 5:28-29; Matt. 27:52; 1 Cor. 15:34-58; Jas. 2:26; 1 Thess. 5:23; Heb. 10:5-10).

There are spiritual anad natural bodies, or heavenly and earthly bodies; and both kinds are real (1 Cor. 15:40-49).

The soul is the invisible part of all living beings, that feels, the seat of his affections, emotions, passions, and desires, and which gives him self-consciousness and makes him a sentient being (Lev. 23:43; 1 Sam. 22:2; 30:6; 2 Sam. 13:39; 2 Kings 4:27; 23:3; Ps. 107:5, 9, 18, 26; Mark 12:33; Matt. 26:38; John 12:27; Heb. 10:38; Heb. 4:12).

The spirit is that invisible thing part of all living beings that knows. The seat of his intellect, mind, and will, and that which gives him self-determination and makes him a free moral agent and a rational being (1 Cor. 2:11; Matt. 26:41; Exodus 35:21; Job 38:8, 18; Prov. 20:27; Phil. 1:27; Heb. 4:12; Jas. 2:26; 1 Thess. 5:23).

The Bible teaches that unsaved men do not have God's spirit in them (Romans 8:9-16; 1 Cor. 12:13; 2 Cor. 1:22; 6:16-18; Gal. 3:2-5; 4:6; Eph. 1:13; 2 Tim. 1:7; 1 John 4:4-6); that God's spirit is not recieved until the new birth (John 3:1-5; 14:17; Rom. 8:9-16); that there is a difference between the natural spirit of man and beasts (Eccl. 3:21); that there is a difference between breath and spirit (Job 34:15; Ps. 19:7; Luke 12:19; 1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 7:1); and that each creature has a separate spirit which is not a part of God (Numbers 16:22; 27:17; Eccl. 3:21; Ezek. 21:7; Dan. 2:1-3; Mal. 2:15-16; Prov. 16:2; 1 Cor. 2;10-12; 14:32; Heb. 12:9, 23; 1 Thess. 5:23).

Try and substitute breath for soul and spirit in all the above passages and see how ridiculous and impossible such meanings are.

Jesus actually descended into hell while His body was in the tomb. He died just before sunset on THAT DAY, on which He said "today' shalt thou be with me in paradise." In Matt. 12:40; Eph. 4:7-11 we read that Christ went "in the heart of the Earth" and "into the lower parts of the Earth" during the time His body was in the tomb. This is what David, by the Holy Spirit meant in Paslms 16:10; Acts 2;25-27, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in Hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption" in the grave. During His time in Hell Christ preached to the spirits in prison (1 Pet. 3;19). The thief went in to Paradise (Luke 16:19-31; 23:43), where Lazarus was and those who were held there against their will untill Christ's death and resurrection. We have pictured here comfort, water etc, where the rich man saw Lazarus. This was the abode of the righteous souls and spirits after leaving their bodies at physical death. All the righteous went to this place and were held captive by the devil against their wills (Heb. 2;14-15; Eph. 4:7-11). The devil had the power of death and of the underworld before Christ conquered him (Col. 2;14-17; Heb. 2;14-15; Rev. 1;18). It was into this place that the penitent thief and Christ went the day they died (Luke 23:43). Christ captured all these righteous sould that were in paradise and took them to Heaven when He ascended on high (Eph. 4:7-11). Christ now has the keys of Hell and death (Rev. 1:18).

The greatest proof of immortality is found in the resurrection of Jesus Christ and His life after death, a work accomplished by His own power. This demonstrated that Jesus was still alive after His body had died for he resurrected His own body (John 2:19-, 21; 10:17, 18). By coming back from the dead, He proved that death was not annihilation. His resurrection and immortality is a guarantee of the resurrection amd immortality of all men (1 Cor. 15:1-8; Phil. 1:21-23; John 11:23-27; 12 :24; 14:19). many saints were resurrected from the dead after the resurrection of Christ (Matt. 27:52-53).

[kat8585]

I Corinth 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

QUOTE

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

(edited by moderator - please keep this civil)

Why can you not comprehend that our decayed remains resurrect and become one with our spirit again? Our spirits are alive always. The point is so that we can have physical bodies to do physical work, ruling and reigning in the New Earth.

--------------------

<

[Floatingaxe]

I Corinth 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

QUOTE

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

Today means today! What a load.

Why can you not comprehend that our decayed remains resurrect and become one with our spirit again? Our spirits are alive always. The point is so that we can have physical bodies to do physical work, ruling and reigning in the New Earth.

--------------------

<

[TomPJr]

tmrfiles said

It is the "physical body" that dies, and not the soul. And it is the physical body that is rasied with a new incorruptable body at resurrection.

Is this the post you were referring to? It doesn't answer the question. What's the point? Where is the scripture to back this up?

I Corinth 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

I believe that is meaning that Flesh and blood alone, can't....we must be born again of the spirit.

Do you remember that when Jesus ascended into heaven, he had a physical body?

He was our example....and we will ascend into heaven after the resurection, with our glorified bodies, to be for a thousand years.