Existance of God: Our imagination?

[Joshua-777]

First: Your words(There's no such thing as the first law of Biology) I want you to know Biologist Dr. Gary Parker disgrees with you. Only life can produce life is something Bilology has always taught.

I can easily look for the three laws of Thermodynamics. Where can I look for the laws of Biology?

You see, Life only coming from Life is not possible until the theory of Life coming out of Non-Life is obsolete.

You cannot use this "law" to refute a theory, because if an alternate theory is there, then it's still not a law.

Third: His experimnts did fail! (Period!) He never did create live frim NonLife! (That mans he failed to create life as he hoped to.

Fourth: I never read the bias Wikipedia, because it doesn't give complete and accurate information and everything. I noticed that skeptics and atheist are big fans of Wikipedia. That's where they get all their incomplete and bias information from.

Allright, I'll give you two Christian sources that say Miller did create aminoacids:

1) http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/molecular_biology_09.html

2) The Book The Case For Faith by Lee Strobel, Objection #3, pages 95 and 96

Guess what both of them say about Miller; the same thing I say about him: That the atmosphere he created had no basis on Old Earth's atmosphere, but none of these sources disagree in that Miller's experiment did create aminoacids.

That the atmosphere he created had no basis on Old Earth's atmosphere

very true, Not getting into millers experiment yet cause honestly, I don't know too much about it, But I will say, that God said he created us out of the dust of the earth, well If you look, all the chemicals in our body, deteriorate back into the dirt. All the minerals are found in the dirt.

[Joshua-777]

Miller had an apparatus which included boiling water. He created an oxygen-free environment; methane was added, hydrogen was added, ammonium hydroxide, and then a 50,000 volt spark. There was a cooling chamber and a trap, and yes, he was able to produce some building blocks

[Observer of dreams]

What the heck is facepalm?

It's that little dangly thing in the back of your throat

[cjrose]

You know, I meet a lot of Christians who - for good reason - get angry when some athiests imply that they must be stupid to believe what they do. Most Christians are intelligent people and have well-researched reasons for their beliefs. And yet - and yet! - so many Christians assume that - like those athiests I mentioned - anyone who believes differently to them must be equally unintelligent and groundless in their beliefs. Do you think that all the intelligent athiests in the world who choose to defend their beliefs are anomalies?

eve, I feel your passion on this subject and as always you are very well spoken and one of the few athiests on the boards who has always been respectful and in return has recieved respect. I have encountered more athiests and non believers who have this pre-concieved, pre-judged idea of Christians that use our faith as a crutch out of fear or ignorance as a means to an end. I appreciate that you see clearly that most Christians are intelligent people but well researched? It really isn't a matter of being researced in the way that one might go to college and focus on a particular study. It is no secret that many Christians come to accept the Lord when most vulnerable or at our very lowest point in life. But it often takes a person to hit bottom before they ask for help when everything is stripped away and they are broken to come to an epifany that there is more to this life. It is our experiences through our struggles and adversity that build strength and open our hearts that compell us to begin to ask questions. With an open mind and those who have come into our path by God to plant seeds, a new journey begins and we develop an awareness as a start, combine that with an intuition that there is more than this life, this world and a process begins as we open the door to greater possibilities. That is just the beginning. Some are slow to come to believe and some suddenly know the truth by accepting that there is a Creator, a power greater than ourselves. It is through His power that we surrender and realize we are not in control and we begin our walk with the Lord with baby steps. Some are so miraculously transformed it could only be from God's healing.

Those that are content in life and feel fulfilled and are "successful" in their financial position or family structure strive to work at it and the focus is not on what is beyond this life or that there is a need for filling an emptiness when all is well and they are "happy." Other influences can affect the belief that there is only this life so make the best of it. Live it well, be an upstanding citizen, pay taxes, abide by the laws of the government, see that their children are provided for, fix the house, upgrade the car, become an artist to express themselves or cultivate their talent without asking where the talent came from or acknowledging their success and being happy only to themselves. Attributing their pleasant living to their ambition and hard work, essentially giving to themselves all the glory because they worked hard for their life.

Don't misunderstand please, there is nothing wrong with working hard to provide a good life and being a good citizen. Or even to be happy. What is wrong is to seek power and pat yourself on the back for everything one has worked for. It is wrong to seek power and covet or collect things and be proud without acknowleding that these things would never be without our Lord having Created this world in the first place. To ignore giving the glory to Him is to deny Him blatenly. To believe this world is it, one life so live it to the limit and do whatever it takes to be happy is to be isolated in ones own space, ones own world, without even questioning that there could be more.

So many say that Christians are weak and can't manage their lives so they become drug addicts and alcoholics, idoliters and seek destruction to fill what is missing. This is so for some but it is our destructive behavior and depression and desires that (for most) lead to a place some feel there is no way out and out of despair ask for help not totally understanding the magnitude of what they had just done. God answers. Lives are transformed and some so vastly that the change causes others to blink and scratch their head. It isn't religion that draws us to Christ it is our vulnerability that drives us to an understanding that there has to be something else in life. And the door is opened and God presents himself in a way that is evidence to each individual that comes to believe and finally surrender and the evidence dwells within us.

You can't see it, touch it or understand it because you haven't experienced it. Not all Christians have had oppression that led them to Christ but once we do accept and are open to the idea that there just might be a higher power and this life isn't just a mere 60,70,80,90 years but a temporary existence I feel grateful to have been born in to that I could make the choice to open my heart. You cannot know God if you continue to deny His existence. And as you say that most Christians you have encountered are intelligent, I feel that there are a few athiests and non believers who are intelligent as well. Then there are those who see us as weak and ignorant and "religious." But we have evidence. We know the truth because as believers it is revealed to us as a gift in many ways. A deeper internal awarness develops over time. For some faster than others. It took me more than 20 years after accepting Jesus to get to this point because I still had one foot in the world.

It as simple as a fine line just one step away and yet so many refuse to cross it. On the other side is an indescribable experience. And through the journey will be many obstacles and eyes rolling, claims of us trying to convert when we are really just wanting to share this gift with everyone so they also can experience the gifts, the messages, the fellowship and the intimate personal relationship of Jesus knowing we are never alone, are always loved and are being guided by the gift of the Holy Spirit that is not given unless one accepts Christ into their life and commits to His Word. So, those that don't seek Him but instead doubt and deny His existence will not have proof that He does exist and we all who do have the like mindedness in our faith know each other by our fruits and form bonds that connect us in our faith in Christ. It is an experience that those outside the faith can never understand unless they come to a point in their lives when they are open to the idea. We are evidence. We are proof all non believers demand, living proof. But again, it is a fine line that seems to be such a difficult hurdle for some and for others, a leap of joy and all that God abundantly gives to His children.

It begins as blind faith but opens a whole world of beauty and again, an indescribable journey. I went through those 20 years or so straying for specific reasons and now have gone from baby steps to grow into the child of maturity and understanding He knew I would be when I was ready. So, I'm going on and on and I could continue to go on and on but I think I have made my point. Whether you take it in is up to you. It is so simple and those that deny His existence seek other sources to prove their point but we will never step back over that line now that we know what waits on the other side. I speak for myself but I know many here feel the same way.

One more thing... Christianity is not religion. So many mix it up. It is a simple belief in Christ. Religion is mans worldly attempt to reach God when Christianity is God attempting to reach us as He knocks moment by moment giving us the choice to invite Him in.

Peace, eve

[Floatingaxe]

Yeah, right! Our feeble minds can conjure up an unfathomable God.

[Openly Curious]

Cjrose,

I just wanted to tell you that your post #122

was very compelling and it ministered so to my own

heart ever so sweetly as I read through it and I am a

born again Christian. I guess all of us have doubts

at times along the way and God knows how to speak

to each of us in His own way and timing.

loving blessings to you sister

OC

[cjrose]

Cjrose,

I just wanted to tell you that your post #122

was very compelling and it ministered so to my own

heart ever so sweetly as I read through it and I am a

born again Christian. I guess all of us have doubts

at times along the way and God knows how to speak

to each of us in His own way and timing.

loving blessings to you sister

OC

((((((((((((OC))))))))))))) you are such a gentle loving spirit. Those words came from the Holy Spirit and I'm touched that it spoke to you in a loving way as your wise words so often minister to me as well. Thank you for this special touching reply. It is always good to know that my inspired words do touch others as the Lord meant them to do. You are a blessing sister