Man Disrupts Service

[darski]

From the OP

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"Dick" has acted so badly, that "Hannah" is afraid of him now, she won't go anywhere with him. I suspect that "Dick" is blind to why she's acting like this and is convinced that "Jane" is manipulating the little girl.

The service ended, and I saw "Harry" (a police officer in a nearby county who's wife plays piano for us) talking to Dick. Dick kept 'fingering" to Hannah to come to him, but she was afraid. I left church right away, as I was getting mad, and I saw several men "keeping an eye on things" - so I was confident that the situation was under control.

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This just shows that the OP did state that the child is afraid of the father.

For those who are saying that he has legal rights I guess it just proves the point for the ACLU that your right to kill me is greater than my right not to be killed right up until you actually kill me then they will sure slap your wrist for that one. All of the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle fit the SOP of men who kill ex-wives expecially law enforcement officers.

I have been listening to these stories for more years than I care to remember. do we ever learn form history?

[Guest Biblicist]

Here is the deal. Legally the wife has physical custody. He LEFT them, that's abandonment, in the eyes of the law. If he takes that little girl, after moving out away from them he could be considered a kidnapper. If they get divorced, his abandonment will go a long way in deciding custody in HER favor.

Sad though it is, men do not have many rights in this country when it comes to their kids. However, not every case is as cut and dry as we might like to think.

Micen~ It sounds as if your emotions and personal experiences are effecting your judgement in giving advise about this matter. I understand your heartache over your daughter and ex, but that does not mean that "Jane" is "not" justified in her fear of "Dick". There are men who terrorize their wives all the time. If he is having the deputies in his department stop her for no good reason, just to prove who is boss, that is terrorizing her. Remember, SHE is not the one who left. HE IS!

The sad thing is that the church, Pastor and elders, did nothing to help this woman, and her estranged husband, before it got this far. I believe the fault lies with the Pastor.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Biblicist

[terter]

I really believe that the pastor and a couple of other people should talk with the husband. Ask if they can talk with him and see if there's any counseling or anything that they can offer. Ask him if he comes back to the church, if he minds if a usher sits with him b/c God wants things done decent and in order. Then the usher sit him in an area of the church where the child and wife aren't and escort him back to his car after services.

If he feels rejected by this congregation, this will aggravate his feelings even more.

Edited November 18, 2006 by terter

[other one]

From what is posted here, there is not nearly enough information to council Jane or Hannah or for that matter Dick. Until we know all the facts there is no way of knowing.

I have a friend who's x wife would seem to be the timid abused female that Jane seems to be. She however is one of the most evil, vingeful, hatefilled people I have ever met when you get close and involved.

So be very careful in picking sides here or suggesting any kind of action without being very very close to the situation.

A restraining order is the only thing I have seen here that is good advice. Let the court descide if there is a real problem.....

and as an after thought, be careful in getting involved at all unless you are willing to take it all the way. If Jane is in real trouble and you give false support you will be putting her in even graver danger for she will be embolded to do things that will hurt her if your support fails later.

[backontrack]

I am glad to hear that the women of the church put a hedge around "Jane" However, they should have stayed with her till he left.

This man should never have been aloud to enter the sanctuary. Whomever was outside the doors should have escorted him out of the building, talking to him as long as possible if necessary.

If no one was outside the doors and he got in, the men of the church should have quietly approached him sitting behind "Jane" and removed him.

"Jane" should never be left alone with him. If he looked that threatening, he was a threat. The numerous things that could have happened in that parking lot are to frightening to list.

File a report with the police, so that next time he shows up and 9-1-1 is called they will hurry. The more police reports there are on this guy, the easier it would be to get a restraining order on him for her and the church. Anyone using scare tactics on a woman and her child needs to be stopped. And the fact that he chose the sanctity of the Worship Service to do it is appalling.

Please forgive me if anyone else gave this same advise. I just read what happened and had to reply. YIKES. Poor "Jane"

Sounds like you had plenty of whiteness around to file a complaint with the local authorities, that's a start.

Next step I would gather together to pray and ask God to intervene in this sensitive situation.

Remember to as believers we do not have to rasell with principalities and powers of darkness but rather take authority over them. The men of the church should have gotten between the two in Love. If that did not work then Dick should have been escorted to the door and reassured that he would have many people praying for him and his family and that God is a Loving forgiving God. Plus it is never too late to repent of wrongdoing.

It is sad to say this poor little girl needs counseling now not after the fact and maybe the other sibling as well and the wife!

We as church members must get back and flow in the spirit of the living God. We have failed our community by not taking authority over the bondage of our community held by Satan. We have stood by and let everything slide for years, school prayer and I could go on and on and on. It's time we stepped up to the plate and reversed the devils grip on this nation! The 5-fold ministry has to be returned to Christ

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

this is so stupid ..all of it... tell me...what did dick do...?? that you'all are saying it's right that shes afraid and that a hedgerow is good...show me the money. What did dick physically do?

and no adultery is not enough to warrant this mob.

No, this is not stupid. This is sad. Apparently there is a problem, and I for one am praying for them all.

Along with the adults there is an innocent young girl involved.

NO, we don't know all the facts, but we know enough to know there is definitely a problem.

It is not for us to know EVEYTHING.

It is for us to pray; no matter who is at fault; no matter what.

[Scarletprayers]

AND....this affects your right to help his wife keep his daughter from him how?

What are you, bored and want to argue so you put words in my mouth? Go waste someone else's time.

hey...you posted this topic.... and I strongly disagree with the things you are saying....adultery is a not a reason not to defend the father and daughter relationship.

The intimidation was the reason for escorting the Mom and daughter, NOT the affair. If the child IS actually afraid of him, she should not be MADE to go with him, without finding out why first???? Sorry, she is the ONLY innocent one in this picture. She needs protection and help to find out whats going on, her needs should come before anybody elses. That the Father would come into Church infront of dozens of wittnesses tells me he has a problem. We usually act better in public than we do in private, so if he is acting like this in Church, how is he acting outside of it. micen2, your answering this with your own situation coloring it, your not reading what this thread says, your putting your own self into the picture. If your wife is actually doing those things, trust me it will come back to haunt her, and I will pray for you and your daughter, If you are being as loving and supportive to your child as you stated, God bless you, from experience with this exact thing, your child will love, honor, and respect you in the end, I can almost promise you those will not be her feelings about her Mother. I just feel sorry that your daughter is being treated this way, poor baby, may God bless her and keep her safe.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

this is so stupid ..all of it... tell me...what did dick do...?? that you'all are saying it's right that shes afraid and that a hedgerow is good...show me the money. What did dick physically do?

and no adultery is not enough to warrant this mob.

No, this is not stupid. This is sad. Apparently there is a problem, and I for one am praying for them all.

Along with the adults there is an innocent young girl involved.

NO, we don't know all the facts, but we know enough to know there is definitely a problem.

It is not for us to know EVEYTHING.

It is for us to pray; no matter who is at fault; no matter what.

it IS most possible that a good part of the problem Is the involvement of uninformed ppl.

Prayer is always a good thing; whether we are informed or not.

[Arthur Durnan]

There must be hundreds of these types of deadwood in churches today. After all, the front doors are always open to every poor soul. Ushering & the exercising of discipline in the worship services is one difficult challenge, but absolutely necessary.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com