Keeping Children Safe

[Natt]

Hi

I'm at present thinking of forming a petitioning to present to the government (NZ) to make it law for all people including Sunday School teachers, those who are responsible for children at camp etc... to have police checks. I'm just fed up with pedophiles targeting churches. I've already discussed this with a couple of people who think I'm being unrealistic.

What do you think?

[Joshua-777]

I agree, For some reason pedophiles are actualy growing in number, Could it be due to culteral views on sex in general? On the radio, most of what you hear is about sex, cheating, And break ups. Which also, The porn indistry is rapidly growing with many supporters, such as aslu, and the homosexual agenda, which 98.3 percent of all pedophiles are addicted to pornography.

[Guest pixy]

I agree. You should definitely form the petition. Unfortunately, so many churches choose to blind themselves to the facts/statistics, and will not take steps to ensure child safety unless compelled by the law. I know of a church here that has allowed two separate persons with histories of sexually abusing children to be involved in ministry with children, to the extent that they were alone with young children on a somewhat frequent basis. The Elders knew of their histories, but chose to overlook them for financial reasons...

So, yeah, I think it is completely appropriate to petition a government to put in place child protection laws. There are many entities other than churches, that fail to establish child protections policies to the fullest extent that they can also.

Children are such precious gifts from the Lord; these young lives must be nurtured, not harmed. Sexual abuse is so damaging and something that bleeds out into every area of a person's life. I believe we should do all we can to protect our children from this devastation.

[Leonard]

I think it is important in this day and age when it seems NOBODY has the 'gift of discerning of spirits' anymore.

[Spunky]

Agree with all the above!

God Bless!

[Northern lass]

This is actually in place in the UK in Sunday schools etc and also anywhere where there is contact with children eg. hospitals, GP practices etc

[buckthesystem]

Hi

I'm at present thinking of forming a petitioning to present to the government (NZ) to make it law for all people including Sunday School teachers, those who are responsible for children at camp etc... to have police checks. I'm just fed up with pedophiles targeting churches. I've already discussed this with a couple of people who think I'm being unrealistic.

What do you think?

I am from NZ too and I hate to "pour cold water" on your idea, but yes - I think you are being unrealistic.

NZ in particular has "gone a bit overboard" with paranoia about "keeping children safe". My kids are all in their 20s now fortunately, so I don't have to put up with the "politically correct ideas" that the government agencies come out with all the time. Our government seems to have an agenda of "we will make all the decisions for you with regard to your kids because you are too 'ill-informed' (read stupid) to do it yourself". Now we have Cindy Kiro's threatened "children's database" (a horror story in itself) and it looks like the latest Bill (I say latest because it has been "on the cards" with government desperately trying to find a way to do it, since 1997, that I know of) to "repeal section 59 of the Crimes Act" - dubbed the "anti-smacking Bill", is all set to become law. This is despite many, many polls conducted resulting in 88% of the public being against it. We sure don't need any more silly legislation with regard to children.

Teachers, kindergarten and day-care workers are already subject to "police checks" as are anybody who comes into a home to clean it or look after children or old people. I would be surprised if that rule doesn't cover anyone taking kids on camps.

These rules were just starting to come in about 15 years ago when my youngest son was going to cub- scouts (he was a cub at the time, I think) and some of the scout leaders - who are, and were also at the time, subject to rigourous police checks - took a large group of scouts, cubs and kias (the six year olds, you might know) on a camp held at the boys' brigade camp near Rimutaka Forest Park. A lot of the fathers came along to help out, but only two mothers - me and one other who left practically as soon as we'd got there because her husband was sick. We tramped through the bush to get to the camp, and then I found that there were three buildings like barrack rooms, but due to the rule that "no adult male could be alone in a room or tent with a boy under the age of 18" I had to "bunk in" with all the cubs and kias in one building, while the scouts were in one other - but I was expected to sort out any problems they had as the men couldn't be there, and all the fathers and leaders (males) slept in the third building. I was quite an experience coping with all those kids, but it would have been far easier if the men had been allowed to help.

This, and other things that I have come across since, make me think that this country has gone "slightly loopy" with regard to all matters concerning kids. I would really hate to have a young child today, it would be so hard.

Anyway, "petitioning the government" has never got anybody anywhere with our government. Think of the many, many petitions the government have been presented with, then totally ignored.

If your idea is on the government agenda, they might look at it - but otherwise, absolutely not.

Remember that NZ has no constitution, therefore the gov't can do exactly what it likes. And there is not even a rule to say that the government has to recognise the results of any referendum held, and if you look at the referenda held over the last few years this fact stands out like a "sore thumb".

Also the government might see it as a "green light" for them to interfere in church matters. In February they are introducing a rule that will have the effect of "politically gagging churches" because any "charitable organisation" (and the government defines churches thus) that is seen to be "too involved in politics" by a government agency or any government minister "will lose their tax exemption" unless it "pulls its head in" (all the words in inverted commas are quotes from speeches on the subject that I have heard). This Bill (can't remember the name - but it is not even a Bill as the legislation is already passed) and the proposed "hate legislation" that the government is "champing at the bit" to bring in, and perhaps your petition, will be all the government needs to interfere totally in church matters.

Grace

BTS

[bethshemaiah]

I agree that there should be criminal record background checks on all individuals who are allowed access to our precious children, but we already have the ability to check into anyone at anytime, it is a matter of public record at all county offices. Run the criminal record background checks.......... on everyone...... appoint a Children's Pastor and police everything............. additionally there are all kinds of concerns regarding who gains access to check children in and out of Children's ministries, such as estranged parents. In these days, the church needs to act as a responsible "business", the world should not manage their "business" better than we do.

But since these things are not routine in church........... the petition is a good idea.

[irishcowboy]

I would agree that all persons need to have a back ground check done if they are to be working with children.

now.

being most church possitions are volunteer, i would say the church should (could) put up the cost (if they are able) and if they are not, maybe a portion of it.

I believe, also, that Christ sent the disciples out two by two for a reason (to keep watch, accountability, safety) this would also be in effect for working with children.... at no time should one adult be left alone with children. this would require more people to do the same job, but there would be less chance of an accusation being able to stand against the person(s) working with the children.

when i was in the Navy, we had certain times that required TPI (Two Person Integrety)... this was to keep those working with sensitive material more safe from the temptation of having problems arise from missing material....

if, even the nursary, had two people there, if an accusation was brought up, there would be witness one way or other.... there would be less chance of anyone being able to harm our children.

mike

[Natt]

Hi again,

Thanks for your your replies.

Grace I know a man who has recently slept in the same cabin at a church camp with several boys because the pastor trusted him. He had no police checks and if he had they would have had good reasons not to allow him. Even though nothing happened at the camp, shortly after he has been arrested for crimes against children. I can't say too much now because it will be in court soon.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Natt