A homosexuality thread

[kittylover0991]

There is another thread going on, and it slowly started to turn into a homosexuality thread. However, since we do'nt want that to happen, is it possible that we can continue that discussion in here? here are some quotes for those who didn't see the discussio

"Well actually what really interested me is that Jay Bakker is a pastor is he not? Doesn't he have a duty to preach truth in an uncompromising way? It sounds like he would compromise the church so as to make gays feel comfortable in their sinful lifestyle choice. The important thing to remember is Jesus often said, "Go and sin no more" Which is different from what Jay Bakker is doing. It seems like Jay Bakker is dousing his light so men can continue to do their evil deeds in comfort. How is that love?" EA

"...If a homosexual is brought to Christ, and it is indeed sinful to be a homosexual, then God will change that person. One's sexual orientation is not something that can be changed by oneself, so simply telling them it's bad will do no good. If a person's sexuality can be changed (and that, I think, is still debatable), then only with the help of the Lord can someone do such a thing." WTD

"2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the Word; be prepared in and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage-with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from truth and turn aside to myths.

We need to be wary of causing anyone to think the grace of our God is a license for immoral lifestyle choices. There IS a place for correcting and rebuking within the church.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double edged-sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Love and amonishing go hand in hand, if a pastor is afraid to tell a member of his church that his homosexual lifestyle is wrong according to God's word and he may just go to hell if he does not change his ways and start listening to the Holy Spirit within him, for fear of offending him, that is just not love.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolator or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "expel the wicked man from among you."

Eventually there comes a point in time if a homosexual has come to know Jesus as his personal Savior but is continuing in his sexually immoral ways, that a member of the church needs to approach this person after much prayer and correct, rebuke and encourage this person, and possibly expel this person from the church so as not to allow the rest of the church to become corrupted.

It is essential that we not lump all teaching, rebuking and admonishing done as hate and judgement. Yes, in the wrong way it can be hate and judgement. If a pastor is not capable of preaching God's whole truth (not just the parts that satisfy their itching ears to interpret to their liking so they can feel comfortable continuing their lifestyle choices) , correcting, rebuking and encouraging, then he simply is not fit for the job of preaching. There are so many people in this world who have been deceived into thinking that there is no need to change our sinful ways and live for God. They say "Jesus died for all my sins, God is loving and compassionate and therefore I'll live how I please and continue in my homosexual/abortion/alcoholism or whatever and if anyone dares to say anything to me at all no matter where their heart is then they are guilty of judging and do not love me as the bible commanded them to." This way of thinking does indeed need to be corrected." EA

"You're working from the point of view that homosexuality is a sin, something that many Christians hold to, and something they feel is quite clear cut in the bible. However, it's not quite as clear cut as it seems to be, as most of the passages alleged to pertain to homosexuality can be explained by someone who is well-versed in both the original language and the cultural context in which it was written." WTD

"Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. " KL

"e need to show the love of God to the unsaved - no matter what their sin."

... (posts on condemning) ...

"However, once a person has accepted Christ as Lord and Savior, we need to encourage them to hear the voice of the Spirit speaking conviction in their hearts to give up sin." neb

"1 Thessalonians 4

Living to Please God

1Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. 2For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. " EA

"and?" WTD

"and? Are you kidding me? The scripture alone is not enough and you need me to add to it? Did you read it? Read the last sentence in particular. If we see a brother or sister in Christ rejecting this instruction, he is in fact rejecting God and will be punished for their sins. This should give us cause for alarm to reach out to these brothers and sisters and not be so afraid of "offending" them. It seems a cruel trick to allow someone to think they can live as though the Holy Spirit is not in them as long as Jesus died for their sins, then die and realize otherwise after it is too late. I believe we have a DUTY to get the TRUTH out and not distort the word of God in the name of love, which in fact is not love at all, it is being concerned about what the world thinks of you rather than serving our true God. It is idolatry to be more concerned with what man thinks than what God thinks. These verses also speak loud and clearly against homosexuality." EA

*Edited Color for Headache Purposes*

[kittylover0991]

.. just a few more...

"This passage speaks only of sexual immorality. One would have to first prove that homosexuality is sexually immoral. But I don't want this topic to become a homosexuality topic." WTD

"The bible tells us CLEARLY over and over again in both the New AND Old Testament that homosexuality is without a doubt sexually immoral. Yes, I'm aware that some biblical scholars have conducted elaborate studies to try to show that Scripture takes no decisive position on the issue. This is neither new nor surprising. Biblical studies have been done to support a wide variety of unbiblical ideas! Do you think it is wise for someone to be willing to bet their eternal life on such studies?

Galatians 6:7-9 Do not be decived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you may also be tempted." EA

"As I said before, it's not as clear cut as you would like to believe, so yes, I tend to take the scholars' side on this topic. Like I said, I don't want this thread to become hijacked by a debate on homosexuality..." WTD

*Edited Color for Headache purposes*

[Marnie]

Gosh, that colored type gave me a headache!

[Floatingaxe]

Is it clearly defined in the bible as a sin?

Umm, yes!

[ayin jade]

Besides all the passages which clearly (despite the "clever" twisting of scripture that some people try and do) show that God abhors the sin of homosexuality, remember that God set the pattern with Adam and Eve. That is the biblical union He established. One man and one woman joined. Any other union (multiple spouses at the same time, homosexual relations, unmarried unions) is a sin.

[GeneV]

Is it clearly defined in the bible as a sin?

Umm, yes!

Ummmmm! Agreed!!

Wow you are colourful tonight

[ramar]

Of course homosexuality is a sin. You CANNOT read and believe in the Bible, without fully seeing that it is considered a sin.

Many people do, in fact, twist the meaning of the words (as was pointed out above), to accomodate their own choices in life. One of the most common things that people say is that homosexuality is an OLD Testament thing ONLY, and no longer considered a sin because of the New Testament.

My first reply to that is that NOTHING that is from the Old Testament can be ignored due to the New...everything remains the same.

Jesus said that He did not come to CHANGE the law, but to fulfill it. The New Testament does not alter the laws at all, it merely alters the way that our sins are atoned for.

However, if one does need a New Testament quote as proof of the sin of homosexuality, you can read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

I have read and studied the Bible in its original Greek (NT) and Hebrew (OT), and there is no second-guessing this point. Even in its original language, the Bible is quite clear on this fact.

Many will say that you cannot definitively say what the Bible says about a subject based on the translations we have, but there is truly very little that our English translations state that can be misconstrued. We have very GOOD translations from the original languages, although there is SOME things that are best read with understanding of the Greek text (for example, the HUGE difference in reading the Greek text with regards to Jesus asking Peter three times if he loves Him. The two different words for "love" in Greek that are used here make a very interesting twist to the whole thing that cannot be seen in English...but that's a subject for another time - which perhaps I'll post later).

The simple fact is, whether you look only at the New Testament, or read the entire Bible; whether you study the Word in English or Greek (or Hebrew for the Old Testament); homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple. And truly, only coming to God with it will allow you to turn away from it.

[Emily~Anne]

Excellent post Ramar!

[Iryssa]

One of my favourite quotes (though I forget who said it):

"God made Adam and EVE not Adam and STEVE"

[Emily~Anne]

Some VERY good reading!!!! Please click onto:

http://www.missionamerica.com/compromised.php?articlenum=6