A homosexuality thread

[Smalcald]

But we can't just lie about what is truth. The fact is that there are sometimes no good answers.

Sometimes for gay people we must admit that this temptation may never go away, even with prayer. No more than we can tell a person who is not going to marry that if they pray hard enough they will not want to have sex, temptation is there and we must deal with it. Celibacy is not horrible; in fact many Christians throughout history have chosen this path and have been blessed.

On the other hand it is a lie to say as some congregations do, and I guess as forrest would say is okay, that having sex outside of marriage is not sin, it is sin and if not repented will indeed send us to hell, regardless of what kind of people we are attracted to.

So yes we must pray, but we must also realize that some people will have a lifetime of struggle ahead of them.

[forrestkc]

But we can't just lie about what is truth. The fact is that there are sometimes no good answers.

Sometimes for gay people we must admit that this temptation may never go away, even with prayer. No more than we can tell a person who is not going to marry that if they pray hard enough they will not want to have sex, temptation is there and we must deal with it. Celibacy is not horrible; in fact many Christians throughout history have chosen this path and have been blessed.

On the other hand it is a lie to say as some congregations do, and I guess as forrest would say is okay, that having sex outside of marriage is not sin, it is sin and if not repented will indeed send us to hell, regardless of what kind of people we are attracted to.

So yes we must pray, but we must also realize that some people will have a lifetime of struggle ahead of them.

I was not saying that it biblically, homosexuality is not sin. I am saying that their are plenty of congregations out there that will not demonize someone because of their sexual orientation. There is a difference between accepting people into your congregation even if you may think they are unrepentant sinners, and building walls between them and God because you think they are unrepentant sinners. Moreover, if we threw out of Church everyone who has had sex before marriage, we would probably reduce national church attendance by about 95%.

[irishcowboy]

Congradulations in your healing. I realize that some individual that yes a healing can occur over night but for the others that it does not happen for I wish that people would encourge them on there journey instead of nagging me to get over it. I'm doing my best and I'm sorry its not good for you but I'm doing everything in my power to get the healing its just taking longer. Deal with it. Help me. I can not do it on my own and the negaitivity I get form people for not healing as fast as others makes me want regress more than come back to someone who is suppose to help me along my journey of recovery.

if you are praying for a healing, you may be praying for the wrong thing.... bondage is not an illness...

what I am saying is not to give up, do not allow satan to beat you up, keep looking up, and the Lord will strengthen you..... yes, i agree, some things happen instantly, other things happen over night, some may even take months and years.... Moses was not leading the nation of Israel over night, Josh spend 40 years in preperation to enter the promised land.....

something to keep in mind friend, is that WE CAN NOT DO IT ON OUR OWN.... (not yelling or beating you up, just letting you know that there are others out here with the same things behind us) .... The Spirit of God is the Great Comforter... and He will comfort you and guide you ans support you and strengthen you.....

if we rely on our "best" we will always fall short.....

you see, I was a good swimmer and also a good runner.... I could swim a mile (did so in scouts and several other times)... i use to be able to run 5 miles in about 21min ....... (key words, Use To til i started smoking).......

Mark Spitz was (is) a swimmer, took 7 GOLD in the olympics.....

Mark and me are in a race.... swimming..... from Key West to London.....

I swim about two miles and tire out....... have to be picked up by sea rescue escorts..... Mark swims 20 miles before he is tuckered out and has to be picked up......

Who Won??????

neither, for we both fell short...... just like with our lives on this earth, no matter how good a person is, they have already fallen short of the Glory of God and have no way of entering the Kingdom of Heaven..

no way, that is, unless they have a "rescue" vessel to pick them up..... that is what Christ is, Christ is my rescue vessel.... and Christ is your rescue vessel.... there is no other that can do that for us.... we can not make it on our own, but with the Rescue Vessel, we have hope of getting to our destination....

do me a favor, and do yourself a favor......

do not allow anyone to beat you up..... rebuke them when they speak negatively about you.....

when a person is speaking bad about you or negatively about your past, it is not you that they are placing on trial, it is the Lord, Jesus, The Christ, that they are placing on trial, and the fullness of His forgiveness and fullness of His Grace that is being questioned......

if you take Christ, turn it over to Christ, it is done....

the effects will start on the inside and work out.... some may show in a short time, other effects will show as you grow in Christ.....

dont let what I say make you feel as though you are being put down.... take it and run with it, run with it straight to the Lord.....

spend as much time as you can in prayer and in the Word..... God will speak to you... start ( easy methods) with 15 minutes aday..... 5 minutes in prayer, 5 minutes reading, 5 minutes in prayer....

first five minutes, ask God to show you something new, to open your heart to His Word, to speak to you and to help you understand what you are going to read..... acknowledge your errors during the past day, ask for forgiveness, and repent......

second five minutes, read, read a chapter, or maybe even a half chapter, you might even read two chapters.... do not let the time factor limit you, read a section and stop at a stopping point, dont set the alarm clock for this.....

third five minutes, pray again, thanking the Lord for His Glorious Word, and ask Him what He wanted to show you, and to continue to draw you closer..... and then listen.... clear the mind and listen.....

oh yea, keep a journal..... just for yourself, not for others.... write thngs in it that the Lord lays on you, thoughts you might have had while in prayer, while reading and questions that come to mind.... then after you are done with the prayer time, see if you can find the answers to your questions.... a good Concordance and Dictionary would be very helpful......

you will notice after a couple weeks, that you will be spending more time in prayerl and more time reading and will be more comfortable with it... you will find you want more and more time to do this... and your journal will be found to be very valuable to you.... in a years time, you might want to review things in your journal.....

anyways..... stay faithful... do not let temptation draw you away from the Lord..... your salvation is not in your hands.... all you have to do is turn it over to the Lord and let Him KEEP IT.....

mike

[Smalcald]

But we can't just lie about what is truth. The fact is that there are sometimes no good answers.

Sometimes for gay people we must admit that this temptation may never go away, even with prayer. No more than we can tell a person who is not going to marry that if they pray hard enough they will not want to have sex, temptation is there and we must deal with it. Celibacy is not horrible; in fact many Christians throughout history have chosen this path and have been blessed.

On the other hand it is a lie to say as some congregations do, and I guess as forrest would say is okay, that having sex outside of marriage is not sin, it is sin and if not repented will indeed send us to hell, regardless of what kind of people we are attracted to.

So yes we must pray, but we must also realize that some people will have a lifetime of struggle ahead of them.

I was not saying that it biblically, homosexuality is not sin. I am saying that their are plenty of congregations out there that will not demonize someone because of their sexual orientation. There is a difference between accepting people into your congregation even if you may think they are unrepentant sinners, and building walls between them and God because you think they are unrepentant sinners. Moreover, if we threw out of Church everyone who has had sex before marriage, we would probably reduce national church attendance by about 95%.

Sure if we threw out sinners I wouldn't be there either.

But sexual purity is a Christian virtue and an important one in our culture of sexual promiscuity. Most of us have lied, but we don

[TomPJr]

But we can't just lie about what is truth. The fact is that there are sometimes no good answers.

Sometimes for gay people we must admit that this temptation may never go away, even with prayer. No more than we can tell a person who is not going to marry that if they pray hard enough they will not want to have sex, temptation is there and we must deal with it. Celibacy is not horrible; in fact many Christians throughout history have chosen this path and have been blessed.

On the other hand it is a lie to say as some congregations do, and I guess as forrest would say is okay, that having sex outside of marriage is not sin, it is sin and if not repented will indeed send us to hell, regardless of what kind of people we are attracted to.

So yes we must pray, but we must also realize that some people will have a lifetime of struggle ahead of them.

I agree with your statement 100%

I have a question though...why do so many people say we don't need to keep the law? If that is sin and will send you to hell if you don't repent, then what makes people think that they don't need to repent of breaking Gods law, which is sin?

Like you said, we must repent, and turn away from our sin, and ask forgiveness. It is an ongoing process.

[Emily~Anne]

We are to love the sinner and despise the sin. If we truly love the sinner and feel compassion for them, then it should be our desire that the know the full extent of how much God can bless them for desiring to live for him, and make sure our own life is testimony to that. Noone loves us more than the one who created us, so therefore there is noone better to trust than God and HIS ways!

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.

Romans 6:6-14

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

[ray]

We are to love the sinner and despise the sin. If we truly love the sinner and feel compassion for them, then it should be our desire that the know the full extent of how much God can bless them for desiring to live for him, and make sure our own life is testimony to that. Noone loves us more than the one who created us, so therefore there is noone better to trust than God and HIS ways!

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.

Romans 6:6-14

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Thanks most encouraging thought I have heard so far

[Arthur Durnan]

http://narth.org is "living proof" that homosexuals can find liberation in and thru faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. EXODUS INTERNATIONAL and EXODUS NORTH AMERICA are additional evidences that those mired in the sin of homosexuality can indeed discover new life in and thru the Miracle-Worker of Galilee and Heaven, Jesus Christ the Righteous One. As the Apostle Paul declares, "if any man (or woman) be in Christ, they are NEW creations, old things are passed away; all things become new." Why would anyone think for a nano-second that Paul's dynamic words apply to everyone save to homosexuals? Christ is still the effective Liberator for all peoples! "If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed!" AMEN!

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for salvation FULL and free!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Guest Chan]

So often people talk of homosexuality as an "it" as if it were one particular sinful act or situation. I tend to see it more as a way that men have of loving and connecting with other men that is antithetical to the fellowship and brotherhood that characterizes a Christian model of love between pepole of the same sex.

To me, it seems like men can't love each other as men -- like the disciples, or the tribesmen of Israel when they have unment emotional needs that they equate with seeking romantic and erotic attachments with other men. It used to bother me that I preferred to exclude "gay" men from my circles of fellowship and friendship, primarily because I didn't like their way of regarding the natural love and fellowship that can only exist between men. But now, I'm beginning to judge that excluding gays is okay, because the "homosexual" way gays approach love and kinship between men is sort of an insult to any genuine or authentic brotherhood and fellowship in the Christian tradition.

Have any other men struggled with this decision and made decisions about it? I also struggle with the idea of male homosexuals as "men". I know God created them to be men, but when I have been around them, I see qualitites of manhood (both Christian and secular) that they are lacking. It looks and feels to me much like part of the sin of homosexual males is a refusal to accept that they are intended to be men themselves, like Adam in God's image -- so instead they come in with this need taht others will "be men" for them.

So, that's what I struggle with:

(1) Is it okay to esclude homosexual males from circles of male fellowship (if they aren't making any effort to deal with their problem) and

(2) Is it overly harsh to judge that homosexual males are not really men -- or don't relate as such.

If any others have struggled with these or similar questions, I'd be interested in your insights.

Besides all the passages which clearly (despite the "clever" twisting of scripture that some people try and do) show that God abhors the sin of homosexuality, remember that God set the pattern with Adam and Eve. That is the biblical union He established. One man and one woman joined. Any other union (multiple spouses at the same time, homosexual relations, unmarried unions) is a sin.

[jamie]

I don't believe it is wrong to exclude practicing homosexuals from our fellowship, and the other sinful behavior you described is called being effeminate. This is a sin as well, and the Bible states that the effeminate will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Sometimes these two sins go hand in hand, and sometimes they don't, but they are both wrong.

At the same time, simply being weak or tempted in a certain area is not a good reason to disfellowship someone. There are those who used to commit acts of sodomy that have gotten saved, and turned from that sin, but are still tempted. We need to accept them just as we do someone who used to be a drunkard but has repented, yet they are still tempted with alcohol.

Hey Butero, wouldn't you say if the word is being preached without compromise, and the Holy Spirit is truly moving, a practicing homosexual or practicing sinner of any kind won't even want to sit in there and play church?

The only reason a person wallowing in sin could sit in a congregation and play church in the first place is because they can do so without the discomfort of conviction; which means something is probably wrong with that church.