Paul's Christianity

[systemstrike_7]

After reading much of Paul's insertions into the New Testament, I can't seem to find any mention of Jesus' earthly ministry.

No virgin birth

No visit of magi

No slaughter of innocents

No flight into Egypt

No Jesus in the Temple at age twelve

No Baptism of Jesus

No Wedding Feast

No Christ walking on water

No Raising of Lazerus

No Transfiguration

No entering into Jerusalem

No Last Supper

No Jewish Court hearing

No Pilate court hearing

No flogging

No Jesus carrying the cross

All Paul knows about is Jesus' death on a cross, resurrection from tomb, and his ascension into heaven.

These three attribute accredited to Christ by Paul, the earliest Christian writer, were also accredited to many other pagan savior gods before Jesus. Paul never quotes anything from any gospel, mainly because Paul wrote before the gospels were written, and apparently hadn't been told about Jesus' earthly ministry. When he speaks of the death, resurrection, and ascension, he talks on a MYTHICAL realm. Just like the pagan saviors.

Hebrews 8:4

"If Jesus had been on earth, he would not even have been a priest."

Jesus lived in the years of 0 A.D. to 33 A.D.(roughly) and Mark was written sometime after 70 A.D. Paul wrote in between these dates. He is the link. And from what I can see, he was unaware of the fact that Jesus was actually on earth.

It is not surprising that Christians rarely speak of early Christianity. When you assemble the facts it comes out as so:

Jesus lived - EVERYONE FORGOT - they finally remembered.

Post your thoughts...

system

Edited January 7, 2007 by systemstrike_7

[ayin jade]

For starters, the gospels illustrate who Jesus is, His life etc. Paul teaches us how to live a Christian life. Paul knew well about His life. He lived with the apostles. He was taught by them for a period of 3 years. The apostles had plenty of opportunity to denounce Paul and claim he didnt know anything, yet the apostles welcomed him. Peter even called his letters Scripture, Gods word.

Jesus lived. No one forgot.

[ayin jade]

Hebrews 8:4

"If Jesus had been on earth, he would not even have been a priest."

Jesus lived in the years of 0 A.D. to 33 A.D.(roughly) and Mark was written sometime after 70 A.D. Paul wrote in between these dates. He is the link. And from what I can see, he was unaware of the fact that Jesus was actually on earth.

Context is everything.

Heb 8:1 Now the sum of the things which we have spoken is this: We have such a High Priest, who has sat down on the right of the throne of the Majesty in Heaven,

Heb 8:2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Heb 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One have something to offer also.

Heb 8:4 For if indeed He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the Law,

Paul is speaking of Jesus as He is NOW in heaven. And saying that from His lineage He would not be a levitical priest if He were currently on earth.

Context is everything.

[ayin jade]

After reading much of Paul's insertions into the New Testament, I can't seem to find any mention of Jesus' earthly ministry.

No Baptism of Jesus

No Baptism of Jesus? Think again.

So Paul didnt write a detailed account of it. Why should he after all? His focus was on living as a believer. The ones he wrote to already knew the life of Jesus. They needed to know how we are to live.

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Paul shows us what baptism means. He clearly knew Jesus was baptized.

[ayin jade]

After reading much of Paul's insertions into the New Testament, I can't seem to find any mention of Jesus' earthly ministry.

No Last Supper

Paul clearly knew of the Last Supper. He clearly believed Jesus lived. He speaks not only about the Last Supper, but also quotes Jesus. And he explains things about the Last Supper to us, again showing Christians how to live the Christian life.

1Co 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread;

1Co 11:24 And giving thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of Me."

1Co 11:25 In the same way He took the cup also, after supping, saying, "This cup is the New Covenant in My blood; as often as you drink it, do this in remembrance of Me."

1Co 11:26 For "as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you show" the Lord's death until He shall come.

1Co 11:27 So that whoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily, he will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup.

1Co 11:29 For he who eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks condemnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

[ayin jade]

Here is another instance of Paul refering to a part of Jesus' life.

Heb 5:7 For Jesus, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong cryings and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared,

Heb 5:8 though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

Heb 5:9 And being perfected, He became the Author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him,

Recognize this? When He was at the Mount of Olives, praying, just before He was betrayed in the Garden of Gethsemene. It wasnt on your list, but it is important to the Gospel message. Therefore Paul mentions it. Clearly Paul was not ignorant of the life of Jesus.

[ayin jade]

After reading much of Paul's insertions into the New Testament, I can't seem to find any mention of Jesus' earthly ministry.

No virgin birth

No visit of magi

No slaughter of innocents

No flight into Egypt

No Jesus in the Temple at age twelve

No Baptism of Jesus

No Wedding Feast

No Christ walking on water

No Raising of Lazerus

No Transfiguration

No entering into Jerusalem

No Last Supper

No Jewish Court hearing

No Pilate court hearing

No flogging

No Jesus carrying the cross

What is the importance of the Gospel?

That we may be forgiven of our sins through the death of Jesus.

Of these items you listed, which of these affects the gospel message? Does the magi have any bearing on His sacrifice? The wedding feast of Cana? No.

The people Paul wrote to already knew about Jesus. They knew about His life and His death. What they needed to know was what to do after converting to Christianity. That is the purpose of Paul's writings. It is also the purpose of the epistles of Jame, Peter and John. Yet interestingly you neglect those.

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

You really need to do some real study in the Bible!

[Leonard]

Dear Systemstrike:

I do not know exactly what struck your system, but it has obviously impaired your faculties to a most critical extent. Never fear; I am here to help you!

Since it is now possible for any 4th or 5th grader to get the correct info with the touch of a few buttons on his computer, I think it would be overly indulgent of me to reproduce all the documentation for your here, and besides, it may help you a good deal if you actually go about to study and LEARN something.

If you learn to thoroughly study an issue before forming an opinion, and to consider well that opinion before boldly stating it as fact, then you are much more likely to be spared in the future from looking so very foolish.

You reproduced this list from some other source, of course:

"After reading much of Paul's insertions into the New Testament, I can't seem to find any mention of Jesus' earthly ministry.

No virgin birth

No visit of magi

No slaughter of innocents

No flight into Egypt

No Jesus in the Temple at age twelve

No Baptism of Jesus

No Wedding Feast

No Christ walking on water

No Raising of Lazerus

No Transfiguration

No entering into Jerusalem

No Last Supper

No Jewish Court hearing

No Pilate court hearing

No flogging

No Jesus carrying the cross"

And after reproducing this silly, and truly meaningless list, you assert that Paul wrote before the Gospels were written. We shall speak of this matter first. The dating of the 4 Gospels has been a dicey issue. Since until recently it was very nearly universally believed that none of the autographs still existed, it was only possible to do a little highly conjectural detective work, dealing with the internal evidence of the extant copies.

Any time such research is read, the reader must be aware of the a prioris of the researchers, for these will inevitably color their conclusions. A very clear example of this is found in the fact that scholars who do not believe in prophecy and miracles, clearly do not then believe that Jesus 'prophesied' the destruction of Jerusalem as the synoptic Gospels present Him doing. To them it is clear that since Jesus died circa A.D. 30-33, He could NOT have spoken about the destruction of Jerusalem, which took place in A.D. 70. Almost universally, 'dating systems' prepared by these individuals will date the synoptics to a period later than the unhappy events of the Year of Our Lord, the 70th.

Christians scholars however, have universally believed both in prophecy, and that Jesus was capable of it. So dating systems from these scholars rely on other criteria for figuring out dates for the Gospels. Some, seeing Mark as rather more shallow theologically than the Matthean and Lucan efforts, have asserted that Mark was written ca. A.D. 45, and followed probably by Matthew, (variously dated A.D. 58-70), and then by Luke (A.D. 62 or later).

With recent discoveries of the oldest copies of any Gospel ever found; in fact what some scholars believe may be the very autograph of Matthew; at Paris and Toledo of course, we have IN OUR HANDS a Matthean Gospel dated to A.D. 62-65. So it would appear that those who asserted very late dates for the synoptics simply because they didn't like the concept of the miraculous and prophetic, were simply wrong.....

So any blanket statement that "Paul wrote before the Gospels were written," is simply nonsense.

Pray consider for a moment that Paul's subject matter was rarely biographical. Sometimes it was autobiographical, but very rarely biographical.

Paul's writings are almost exclusively hortatory. That is, he is explaining doctrine, and teaching. His letters deal seldom with Christological issues and almost exclusively with Ecclesiological matters. Surely his subject matter alone explains why Paul does not spend his time simply restating what the Gospel writers have already most admirably and thoroughly covered, don't you imagine?

A good analogy would be the difference between Washington Irving's "Life of George Washington" and say, "Review of American Democracy." Things spoken of in the former, but entirely lacking in the latter would certainly include such notable things as:

1. The place of Washington's birth

2. His early career as a surveyor

3. His role in the French and Indian War

4. Washington's legendary abilities as a dancer

5. His great love of young people

6. His prayers and devotions at Valley Forge

7. His deep fatherly love for Benedict Arnold, and his profound depression at that man's betrayal

8. That he loved Marth Washington's fruitcake soaked in coffee or brandy

9. His skill as an inventor, architect, husbandman, a brewer and distiller, etc. etc. etc.

I'm sure you get the point; such a list could go on and on and on, and that although the author of the latter was no doubt fully cognizant of these things, they simply did not fit in the context of his literary genre.

You also said:

"Paul never quotes anything from any gospel...."

Au contraire! my dear fellow. Paul has several quotes from the Gospels, and many, many literary allusions thereto. I'll give you one of each: First Paul quotes part of Jesus' words at the Last Supper, and secondarily, Paul uses the Greek word 'metamorpheo' about the lives of Christians in Christ, in the same sense that the synoptics use the word of Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. I'm sure if you ACTUALLY READ the New Testament, rather than just reproducing silly things from unbelievers webpages, you can come up with many more--I certainly can, and just off the top of my head while sitting here at the computer screen. I have had many students who disagreed with me on many issues, and received 'A's in my courses, because they showed real effort, study, and scholarships to come to their conclusions, but frankly, if you were one of my college students you would be flunking right now, just due to being too lazy to study things out before making assertions. Gather your FACTS, man!

"When he speaks of the death, resurrection, and ascension, he talks on a MYTHICAL realm. Just like the pagan saviors."

With many notable exceptions, but I'll just list one: The Greek and other Pagan myths all took place in the distant past. Paul is assuring us these things were done IN LIVING MEMORY, and with many LIVING eye-witnesses! That is quite the most profound difference, don't you think? Paul invites his original readers to come and speak with these folks, they ARE available; "...over 500 persons, most of whom are still living....." Paul says. Mary herself evidently continued to live or near Nazareth until her death ca. A.D. 60, and some quite young folks who were eye-witnesses lived long lives until well into the second century. Further, records of Jesus' trial, crucifixion, and the Roman take on subsequent events would be available both at the Provincial Library at Caesarea, and by this time, copies would also have forwarded to the Imperial Library at Rome, where they would be resident until the destruction of the Imperial Library in A.D. 476. To claim this Paul's references are like that of the 'pagan saviors' is ludicrous on the face of it. Come now; you seem to have a functional brain, you're simply being inexcusably lazy here.

LEARN!!!

[systemstrike_7]

You guys need to calm down. I never once said that this stuff was fact or that I was for sure right. I just posted it to get some replies. Geez, keep your panties on.

Regarding the part about the last supper, I completely forgot about that and was going to mention it.

The bread and wine/body and blood thing is a very common ceremony in pagan circles with varying pagan savior gods. And right before then it says, "and I recieved from the Lord...". It seems that these things were shown to him by Jesus through his spiritual sighting.

Secondly, you only mention this one thing. I have yet to see anything else about Jesus' life. Jesus' life is very important. For christianity to be true, he must have lived and died and rose again AS A HUMAN.

And sorry Leonard, I didn't realize I was writing a college research paper. I would have flunked myself if I would have turned that in as well.

Silly and meaningless list? What makes you believe this is silly and meaningless? Maybe the cornerstone of your religion? Instead of calling my list names, why don't you give more than one answer?

This new "autograph" is very interesting. Do you happen to have a link to some info I can get on it? I would love to read on it.

If Paul was aware of the existence of gospels, I can assure you he would have used them in giving instruction. He did not witness the life of Jesus, therefore, he would need some pretty strong sources behind this new doctrine he was teaching to thousands of people.

As they say, "Jesus is the leader of Christianity, but Paul invented it".

And please, guys, ya'll are christians. Be a little nicer, you are representing perfection and doing it poorly.