Is CCM the devils plot to polute good Christian music?

[Axxman]

I Prefer the Gospel music channel

They have all different varieties. Rock, pop, soul, country, contemporary. They have a radio channel and video's.

I think that ALL forms of music are fun. I like to hear different Christians in music minister in their own unique way. Like everyone I have been disappointed from time to time in the decisions that certain Christian musicians have made in regards to "toning down their message." But I don't allow that to reflect on EVERY Christian singer out there.

It should also be noted that many Christian artists are singing songs directed at fellow Christians. If I'm talking to my fellow brother in Christ there is NOTHING inappropriate with me saying "He has answered all my prayers" or "He shows me amazing love, " etc, etc....

The same goes with music...just cuz a singer doesn't say "Jesus" every 15 seconds doesn't mean he has fallen away...it means that you should have a clue what he's talking about. You can often tell when a Christian singer is being evasive in his message without being so nit-picky about the lyrics. I think many Christian artists are held to a standard that not many Christians could live up to in their daily lives.

Christians are harder on fellow Christian singers than they are on their favorite secular singers.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Axxman

[Phil.2:12]

Seems that some people just MUST take out their denominational pet peeves and air them. Seems to make them more of a Christian or more "righteous". Personally, if God doesn't mind something, what empowers me to get up on my soap box and tell the world how such stuff is of the devil! Sure 's not God doing the talking, cause He doesn't mind whatever it is that got my shorts in a bunch.

So it is with CCM, in my view. How could God mind a venue of music that spiritually ministers to so many Born-Again Christians? He inhabits the praises of His people, so does He stop inhabiting the praises of those who want to earnestly praise Him with Contemporary Christian Music? Personally I don't think so. Some people need to mature in Jesus a lot more than they have so far, IMHO.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Phil.2:12

[Gerioke]

Since CCM is contemporary Christian music. that leads me to believe that CCM has been around since the first song to honour Jesus. What makes it contemporary is that it's new, what makes it Christian is that it serves God. What makes it music is... well it has rythm and melody.

So if CCM is evil, then Onward Christian Soldiers was evil when it first came out.

I don't get it.

Hi Gerioke,

I believe I spoke with LadyC on this subject a couple of months back, and The music that she heard in her area of the country seemed to be different then mine. perhaps you don't get songs about band leaders dead dogs, and stuff of this nature, but here in southwest Ohio, this seems to be the norm.

Did they worship the dead dog? Did they hold the dead dog in a higher esteem than Jesus? What's wrong with singing about a dead dog? Does being a Christian artist automatically forbid you from singing about a dead dog?

I still don't get it.

[spiritman]

Since CCM is contemporary Christian music. that leads me to believe that CCM has been around since the first song to honour Jesus. What makes it contemporary is that it's new, what makes it Christian is that it serves God. What makes it music is... well it has rythm and melody.

So if CCM is evil, then Onward Christian Soldiers was evil when it first came out.

I don't get it.

Hi Gerioke,

I believe I spoke with LadyC on this subject a couple of months back, and The music that she heard in her area of the country seemed to be different then mine. perhaps you don't get songs about band leaders dead dogs, and stuff of this nature, but here in southwest Ohio, this seems to be the norm.

Did they worship the dead dog? Did they hold the dead dog in a higher esteem than Jesus? What's wrong with singing about a dead dog? Does being a Christian artist automatically forbid you from singing about a dead dog?

I still don't get it.

Gerioke, I think I'll let your own comments stand on this one. have a nice day.

[spiritman]

Since CCM is contemporary Christian music. that leads me to believe that CCM has been around since the first song to honour Jesus. What makes it contemporary is that it's new, what makes it Christian is that it serves God. What makes it music is... well it has rythm and melody.

So if CCM is evil, then Onward Christian Soldiers was evil when it first came out.

I don't get it.

Hi Gerioke,

I believe I spoke with LadyC on this subject a couple of months back, and The music that she heard in her area of the country seemed to be different then mine. perhaps you don't get songs about band leaders dead dogs, and stuff of this nature, but here in southwest Ohio, this seems to be the norm.

I understand perfectly. If a pastor tells a 10 minute story from the pulpit about his dead dog, that is fine. No one will complain. However if a Christian artist releases a song about his dead dog, he catches condemnation for it.

First of all I'd like to make my positon on this subject plain, because there are a few of us here that while not liking CCM, it may not be for the same reasons. So here is my position. I believe that CMM probably started out with good intentions, Like I said; " I used to listen to it in the 90's". However I believe that Greed has crept into the industry. And when you mix secular sponsers with Christian music, the results usually go the route of , how can the Secular sponsers make the most money without offending anyone?. Enter We need to water it down a bit, Jesus is to much a Politically inncorrect topic.

So one of the first things they do is to replace the name of Jesus with the words His, Him, Thy, anything but the name of Jesus, it might offend someone. Then after that, they begin to replace the gospel message with songs about my girlfriend, dead dog, ect ect. No Muslim will ever get offended by this, nor will he or she get saved either.

The whole point of the gospel message, and this is what CCM was suppose to be about was to spread the good news of the gospel, to get people saved. 2nd, If a paster of my Church began to water down the message of Jesus Christ, and would be afraid to speak the name of Jesus because someone in the audiance might get offended, I would be looking for a new church.

This actually happened at one of the churches I used to go to; Every week the pastor would talk about his vacation, tell jokes,

talk about his family, they had some good singing, but I needed to hear the gospel, I wasn't getting fed, my spirit was straving. I would advise anyone who is in a church like this to get out and find a new one.

Now as far as the music goes; the music you listen to is your preference, and I'm not telling anyone what to listen to; But the Holy Spirit inside me has prompted me to change music channels, and that's what I did. And I get more of a blessing from the praise and worship music. Praise and worship stations I listen to aren't perfect, sometimes a dud slips in, and when enough of them start slipin in, then when the spirit prompts me, I'll change stations again, If I can't find anything on, I'll turn the radio off. We all have to listen to the Holy Spirit on such matters. I believe that there might be a time coming in the not to distant future when Christians will not be able to find any entertainment at all.

But if I were to give advise on it, I would say go to praise and worship music.

In His Love

Spiritman

[spiritman]

Seems that some people just MUST take out their denominational pet peeves and air them. Seems to make them more of a Christian or more "righteous". Personally, if God doesn't mind something, what empowers me to get up on my soap box and tell the world how such stuff is of the devil! Sure 's not God doing the talking, cause He doesn't mind whatever it is that got my shorts in a bunch.

So it is with CCM, in my view. How could God mind a venue of music that spiritually ministers to so many Born-Again Christians? He inhabits the praises of His people, so does He stop inhabiting the praises of those who want to earnestly praise Him with Contemporary Christian Music? Personally I don't think so. Some people need to mature in Jesus a lot more than they have so far, IMHO.

Phil,

conversations on this board really can be quite nice and informative, until someone starts putting people down, please refrain from this activity in the future. I'm assuming the comment was directed at me, so I forgive you. Phil quote " Some people need to mature in Jesus a lot more than they have so far, IMHO."For your information there are several different parts of the Body of Christ having a conversation about this subject.

1. Those christians who's top priorities are being edified by the music.

2. Those Christians who's top priorities are The music giving the message of salvation to the Lost.

Those in the first category sit back and are comfortable knowing even though the artists don't say the name of Christ, They are satisfied in believing that the artist is refering to Jesus Christ. I used to think this myself about a song by Steven Curtis Chapman until I found out years later that he was singing to his wife. However to be fair, some CCM artists do make the effort to exalt Christ.

Those in the second catergory such as myself; would like the music to convey, more of a salvation message to the Lost, not cuddle the already saved Christian. Jesus said " Those who are sick need a physican, not those who are well". Matthew 9:12.

Besides this, The Christian has the other memebers of the body to cuddle him/her, and can listen to music at church; so I ask, what do the lost have?. They certainly won't get witnessed to by secular music. And I find very few Christians that will go out and street witness.

As bad as things are getting in this world, The Christian is going to need some of that strong Holy Ghost filled music, not this watered down stuff. compared to the praise and worship music CCM is watered down.

despite our difference of opinons I still love and care about everyone in this coversation including you.

Have a nice day

Spiritman

[Axxman]

First of all I'd like to make my positon on this subject plain, because there are a few of us here that while not liking CCM, it may not be for the same reasons. So here is my position. I believe that CMM probably started out with good intentions, Like I said; " I used to listen to it in the 90's". However I believe that Greed has crept into the industry. And when you mix secular sponsers with Christian music, the results usually go the route of , how can the Secular sponsers make the most money without offending anyone?. Enter We need to water it down a bit, Jesus is to much a Politically inncorrect topic.

So one of the first things they do is to replace the name of Jesus with the words His, Him, Thy, anything but the name of Jesus, it might offend someone. Then after that, they begin to replace the gospel message with songs about my girlfriend, dead dog, ect ect. No Muslim will ever get offended by this, nor will he or she get saved either.

The whole point of the gospel message, and this is what CCM was suppose to be about was to spread the good news of the gospel, to get people saved. 2nd, If a paster of my Church began to water down the message of Jesus Christ, and would be afraid to speak the name of Jesus because someone in the audiance might get offended, I would be looking for a new church.

This actually happened at one of the churches I used to go to; Every week the pastor would talk about his vacation, tell jokes,

talk about his family, they had some good singing, but I needed to hear the gospel, I wasn't getting fed, my spirit was straving. I would advise anyone who is in a church like this to get out and find a new one.

Now as far as the music goes; the music you listen to is your preference, and I'm not telling anyone what to listen to; But the Holy Spirit inside me has prompted me to change music channels, and that's what I did. And I get more of a blessing from the praise and worship music. Praise and worship stations I listen to aren't perfect, sometimes a dud slips in, and when enough of them start slipin in, then when the spirit prompts me, I'll change stations again, If I can't find anything on, I'll turn the radio off. We all have to listen to the Holy Spirit on such matters. I believe that there might be a time coming in the not to distant future when Christians will not be able to find any entertainment at all.

But if I were to give advise on it, I would say go to praise and worship music.

In His Love

Spiritman

Greed? I would just like to say there is NOTHING wrong with making an honest buck. Those who persue Christian music do so at their own financial peril more often than not. Christian musicians don't come close to making what their secular counterparts do in most cases. The ONLY Christian musicians that even come close are those that have been in the business for a loooonnnngggg time. Being involved in the Christian music industry is a sacrifice that MOST pastors wouldn't leave their "cushy" jobs for, let alone most Christians who criticize them. If Christians did a better job of supporting the Christian musicians then they wouldn't have to go after sponsorships. The fact of the matter is that people who claim to be Christians STILL support secular music better than Christian music.

Seems to me that too many people need to quit judging Christians in ministry while they've still got a "plank" in their own eye.

It is a RARE occasion when a Christian musician quits talking about Jesus. More often than not, they never mentioned Jesus in the first place. Rock group POD got their start in Christian music...and now they rarely mention the name of Christ or Godly principles in their music. GUESS WHAT....they never were that type of band. All the way back when they first came out they had the same message they do today. Thats how it usually works. Audio Adrenaline ALWAYS sang about Christ, the christian life, and Godly principles...whether they were singing about girlfriends or going to Heaven. When PFR sang about "Goldie's last day" (the "dead dog" song") it was a fun tribute to a family pet. Now I realize how unemotional and stiffling the christian life is "supposed to be" for some of you....but Christians are not EVIL for singing about things that happen to us in our lives. PFR was a victim of lack of Christian support. They sang incredible music and had an incredible desire to serve God. (I met and worked with them when they became "Eager".) For people to complain about a tribute to a pet and miss the overall message is garbage to me.

I am tired of the notion that ALL Christians songs have to be about salvation. Thats just ridiculous. If I went to a Church whose ONLY message was "salvation" I'd quit going....BECAUSE I'M ALREADY SAVED!!! Sometimes I want to hear about love, hope, the future, life in general...and *gasp* sometimes I just wanna laugh.

If the Holy Spirit guided you to listen to ONLY one style of music I think you should reflect more on why that is so. I suspect it has ALOT more to do with YOU...than with problems in Christian music.

hr.jr said: An update. Swaggart is again bashing CCM music. He is on a crusade against the News Boys in particular.

Of all bands...lol. What is he possibly going after the Newsboys for? I think that people who are doing all this "judgement" on CCM need to start going to see them, and meet them. Swaggert would probably feel humbled if he spent 10 minutes talking with Peter Furler (lead singer of the Newsboys.) If people have a problem with a specific Christian band...fine. However, to judge a whole industry as if it were somehow tainted over some of the whack reasons people have listed is sad. Its no wonder that "High School Musical" outsold nearly the top 10 Christian artists combined. Thats really upsets me.

[spiritman]

Seems that some people just MUST take out their denominational pet peeves and air them. Seems to make them more of a Christian or more "righteous". Personally, if God doesn't mind something, what empowers me to get up on my soap box and tell the world how such stuff is of the devil! Sure 's not God doing the talking, cause He doesn't mind whatever it is that got my shorts in a bunch.

So it is with CCM, in my view. How could God mind a venue of music that spiritually ministers to so many Born-Again Christians? He inhabits the praises of His people, so does He stop inhabiting the praises of those who want to earnestly praise Him with Contemporary Christian Music? Personally I don't think so. Some people need to mature in Jesus a lot more than they have so far, IMHO.

Phil,

conversations on this board really can be quite nice and informative, until someone starts putting people down, please refrain from this activity in the future. I'm assuming the comment was directed at me, so I forgive you. Phil quote " Some people need to mature in Jesus a lot more than they have so far, IMHO."For your information there are several different parts of the Body of Christ having a conversation about this subject.

1. Those christians who's top priorities are being edified by the music.

2. Those Christians who's top priorities are The music giving the message of salvation to the Lost.

Those in the first category sit back and are comfortable knowing even though the artists don't say the name of Christ, They are satisfied in believing that the artist is refering to Jesus Christ. I used to think this myself about a song by Steven Curtis Chapman until I found out years later that he was singing to his wife. However to be fair, some CCM artists do make the effort to exalt Christ.

Those in the second catergory such as myself; would like the music to convey, more of a salvation message to the Lost, not cuddle the already saved Christian. Jesus said " Those who are sick need a physican, not those who are well". Matthew 9:12.

Besides this, The Christian has the other memebers of the body to cuddle him/her, and can listen to music at church; so I ask, what do the lost have?. They certainly won't get witnessed to by secular music. And I find very few Christians that will go out and street witness.

As bad as things are getting in this world, The Christian is going to need some of that strong Holy Ghost filled music, not this watered down stuff. compared to the praise and worship music CCM is watered down.

despite our difference of opinons I still love and care about everyone in this coversation including you.

Have a nice day

Spiritman

As I remember, The soul purpose of Christian rock (was it was orig. called) was to present the gospel in a form that would reach people that are typically unreached by traditional church means. The earliest groups, Second Chapter of Acts, Vision, Mylon Lefevere and Broken Heart, Petra, and Stryper all had the lost as their target audience. They did not seek to edify Christians. They did not seek to play music that was appealing to Christians. Their goal was to play high quality metal music that contained the Gospel message. The quality of the music attracted the sinners, the gospel message contained in the words led the Sinner to Christ. I used to go to the concerts. The audience was pretty much like the audience at a Guns N' Roses concert. The people smoking pot at the beginning of the concert were kneeling in the prayer rooms at the end of the concerts. My cousin went into a Mylon Lefevere & Broken Heart concert with a bag of Cocaine in his front pocket and came out a Christian who has lived for the Lord for 18 years.

This music was not intended for Christians, but sinners. Somewhere along the line, Christians decided this music was for them. They expected the music to suddenly contain deep theological meaning, to suddenly be "praise and worship" music. The problem is, that is not what the music was designed to do. The music was designed to convert the lost, not edify the Christian.

Take for example Billy Graham. The point of his messages were salvation. Multitudes were saved. However if you relied on his ministry to turn you into a mature Christian, you would never become a mature Christian. That was not the purpose of his ministry.

Christians expect too much from CCM. It is not designed to work in the office of Teacher, it is designed to work in the office of Evangelist. The fact that it is not offensive to sinners proves that point. Evangelists win souls because they are not offensive. They present the gospel message in love.

Jr said; " Second Chapter of Acts, Vision, Mylon Lefevere and Broken Heart, Petra, and Stryper all had the lost as their target audience

Spritman responds; " can you tell me how many of these groups out of the list above are still around?".

Jr said; " They did not seek to play music that was appealing to Christians".

Spiritman responds; " exactly my point, so why are we as Christians still listening to it?".

Jr said; " The quality of the music attracted the sinners, the gospel message contained in the words led the Sinner to Christ."

Spiritman responds; " As I said over in post #18; " To be fair there are still some artists in CCM who try and exalt Christ, but, that number is fading.

Jr said; " Somewhere along the line, Christians decided this music was for them. They expected the music to suddenly contain deep theological meaning, to suddenly be "praise and worship" music. The problem is, that is not what the music was designed to do".

Spiritman responds; " Is there anything wrong with the music having a deep theological meaning, or would you perfer Christians stay babies in Christ, and never grow?"; according to your above statement, if a christian gets saved listening to CCM that's ok ( A statement I also agree with), but afterwords should move on to Praise and worship ( a statement I also agree with).

How did the master witness; in John 4:4-26, we see Jesus talking to the woman at the well, at the end of the conversation He tells her that He is the Messiah. Nope Jesus isn't ashamed of who He is.

This is one example of how Christ witnessed to sinners, there are more but if I go into great detail then some won't read my post because it's too long. So I'll stop here.

Have a nice day

Spiritman

[RedeemedByHim]

I have to say that I am pleased with what I have read so far...I love CCM and much of it has impacted my life greatly. I especially love WorshipCCM...if that is same thing...Mainly anythin that glorifies God. You know also that God was the one that created music (any style.) Satan just corrupted it with bad lyrics...that is my opinion...Now I hate my hubby's rock music even though it is Christian, however, I also have looked at the lyrics inside his cover and they are glorifying God..I think it just depends on your taste

[LynD]

I don't think CCM is evil. And just because a song doesn't have the word Jesus in it doesn't make it ungodly. There are quite a few songs that have ministered to me through musicians sharing things they have gone through. Particularly Jeremy Camp and some of his songs about losing his first wife to cancer. Helped me get through the death of my mom, as did Kathy Tricolli's Goodbye for Now. They weren't praise and worship, but they ministered hope through Christ. I like to look at it as "musical testimonies". I often use pronouns when I talk about God. Does that make my testimonies an less truthful or water it down? I don't think so.