When you are born again

[Mutzrein]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

Jesus said "You must be born again." If a person is not born again, then the 'christian' tag is meaningless.

When a person is born again, (and this is not a human decision) they receive the Spirit of Life. Until this time they are dead in trespasses and sin. But now, as far as the consequence of Adam's sin is concerned, they have passed from death to life. They are a 'new' creation.

However, although they they are born of God's Spirit their flesh doesn't just cease to exist. Scripture reinforces many times the distinction between the Spirit and the flesh and the war between them. So how do we overcome the flesh? By walking in the Spirit - in order that the deeds of the flesh may be put to death.

I agree with you Mutzrein,

I would only add that there is a newness in Christ Jesus, and that we do not walk in the sin "lifestyle" any longer when we are born again. However we will understand the difference between willful and unintentional sins as a babe in Christ. I am also reminded of Jesus' words to the disciples and the symbolism that comes to mind in regard to it and a born-again believer:

John 13:6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, "Lord, are you going to wash my feet?" 7 Jesus replied, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand." 8 "No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me." 9 "Then, Lord," Simon Peter replied, "not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!" 10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you."

Christians should NOT be needing WHOLE BATHS as born-agains!

In His Love,

Suzanne

Thankyou Suzanne

" . . . as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6 - and it is worth immersing one's self in the whole chapter.

The Lord bless you

[tsth]

Romans 6 - and it is worth immersing one's self in the whole chapter.

I liked that!!!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[jesussaves]

2 Peter 1:4

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Before we are born of the Spirit we are under the school master...the law...which tells us how we should live...but try as we may our sin nature, the flesh, seems to dominate our lives so we lie, cheat, steal, commit adultry, worship idols...and make excuses for what we did such as...well I'm not such a bad person. So and so has done much worse than me. Besides, I've only broken a few of the ten commandments not all of them...our sin nature does not realize the depths of our sinful nature. When we are born again we realize first of all how blind we were and how wonderful it is to be in right standing with the Lord. Our want to's change. Now when we remember our sinful past is isn't something to just joke about and shrug off because after all...other people have done the same thing...but now we realize how that sin seperated us from the presence of the Lord and how wretched we were and now we have that wonderful gift called grace...our hard hearts have been changed from stone to tenderness...our desire is to be holy and live according to the Spirit...we realize that every promise in the Bible is a gift to us...leading us into a life style of faith, hope and love...walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh is a PROMISE...by these you can be partartakers of the divine nature of Christ. If you want to experience more of His divine nature you have to stay in the word and hold tight to it. Believe what it says...even when everything around you is saying just the opposite...and you will grow in the grace and knowledge of the word of God as you go from glory to glory in your born again walk with the Lord Jesus Christ....if you falter...rest assured the Father has a way of correcting and keeping you from falling. Read every PROMISE you can find. Meditate on them...find those that pertain to your situation and know God is in control.

Get a book of Bible promises and read them. A good one is Precious Bible Promises by Open Doors with Brother Andrew.

Here are a few of those precious promises.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteouslu and godly in this present age, looking for that blessed hope and glorious appearing of our Great God, and Saviour, Jesus Christ." Titus 2:11-13

"As obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, Be ye holy, for I am holy." 1Peter 1:14-16

IF you try to live holy apart from the Lord you will be miserable because you will soon learn you just can't do it! BUT, if you go to the Lord and tell Him you need His help to live holy and grow in grace...if you go to Him with a broken and contrite spirit...acknowledging your sin, you will soon know the joy of leaning on Jesus and having Him transform your life. And when a time comes that you feel like Peter did when he stepped out then his faith faltered when he got his eyes on his circumstance instead of Jesus, and he began to sink...remember we have a promise..."He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it to the finish!" Keep your eyes on Jesus. It is in Him we live and move and have our being. Acknowledge you can do nothing apart from Him, and most of all you are nothing apart from Him. Christ in us the hope of glory!

Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, sweetest name I know!

Praise Him all the time and in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you!

[Pilgrim7]

jesussaves,

Good post.

The sinful nature still exists, yet the Spiritual nature, received at the 'New Birth' is stronger, and is to dominate the 'Old Nature'. Thus the war between the flesh and Spirit.

Now it is a matter of feeding and exercising the Spiritual nature so it can grow and remain dominant. If we do not feed on the word of God, then the 'Spiritual nature' becomes week and feeble and the 'sinful nature' will take control again. This is called backsliding and Peter compares it with a 'dog returning to his vomit'.

There is truly a war between the flesh and the Spirit, but Scripture says that Jesus always gives the victory to those who 'fight the good fight of faith'.

So yes the sinful nature still exists, but Jesus dwelling within will 'keep us from falling' as we abide in Him.

The Spiritual nature is none other than the 'mind of Christ' dwelling in us, strengthing us and leading us in righteousness and holiness. This is the essence of faith, Christ dwelling within, for only then can He keep us from falling to our 'sinful nature'.

The sinful nature will not be removed until the Resurrection, for it is in doing battle with it that our faith is strengthened.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Fraught]

These posts are informative, but they are begging the question. I did not ask if man has a sinful nature, for (in Scripture) that is a given. What I'm looking for is the exchange of spiritual natures that is sometimes taught happens at the moment of conversion when one actually accepts Jesus as their Savior. After conversion, does one possess the sinless nature of God as Adam did (before the fall) or is the old sin nature still there making one "just a sinner saved by grace". You cannot be a "sinner" without the presence of the sin nature but you can sin when possessing the sinless nature of God (as Adam did). So, again, which nature do we have after accepting Jesus, the sin nature we got from Adam or the sinless nature of God.

Please do not look at this thread as a rehash of the "sin nature" arguement. It is asking a completely different question.

i do believe there is an exchange of spiritual natures. that upon conversion, the person comes alive - they are a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2

Made Alive in Christ

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Colossians 2:13

When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

if i'm correct in what you are asking, these verses, imho, answer yes

[dad2seven]

Hi Dennis

The sinful nature still exists, yet the Spiritual nature, received at the 'New Birth' is stronger, and is to dominate the 'Old Nature'........................The sinful nature will not be removed until the Resurrection, for it is in doing battle with it that our faith is strengthened.

Do you have any bible verses to support this?

Thanks

Steve

[Pilgrim7]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure which point you need Scripture for.

Point one: All Christians have both natures:

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that you enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that you (your sinful nature) would.

This point is very obvious to anyone who has been 'born again', for he battles the sinful nature daily.

Point 2: Sinful nature not removed until Resurection:

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.

Mr 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endures (overcomes) temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him (and those who love Him keep His commandments which strengthens their faith).........

1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away (from Christ) of his own lust, and enticed . (by his sinful nature)

1:15 Then when (or if) lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.

Sinful nature resides in the flesh, consisting of body and mind. This condition remains until the reception of the new body, when the carnal mind is eradicated. In the 'new birth', one receives the 'mind of Christ', yet he still has his old mind, which is contrary to the 'mind of Christ'. This is why Philipians tells us to 'let or allow' the mind of Christ to be in us and control us.

Point 3:'Spiritual nature' is strenthened through battle with 'sinful nature':

Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into divers temptations;

1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of (testing) your faith works patience (the word translated patience really means endurance).

1:4 But let patience (the ability to endure temptation without falling) have her perfect work, that you may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

2ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered (to die), and the time of my departure is at hand.

4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

You see today it is all about an intellectual christianity, a doctrinal faith, theory and debate. Such is not the Christianity of Christ. Christianity is practical, it consists of not just 'head faith', but real practical faith that depends on Christ to be faithful, to overcome temptation and sin. This is a constant battle because of the 'sinful nature'. Any one who has received the Spiritual nature is aware of this is a very real war for he/she is engaged in battle against principalities and powers and is using all the Spiritual armor that is available for victory. They are warriors in Christ. They are 'soldiers of the cross'.

2tim 2:3 therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2:4 No man that wars entangles himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who has chosen him to be a soldier.

2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Guest miya]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

I was just reading a study today. the question raised "who was Paul speaking to?" in romans 7:24 "O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death" Now Paul was speaking of himself. Why because the spirit is constantly warring against the flesh. So we are given a new nature when we receive Christ as savior 2 Cor 5:17 therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature old thngs passed away behold all thngs new. although we are in spirit born again we still live in temporal bodies the result of Adams sin therefore sin (oppertunity) to sin is always present with us. thus the reson romans 7:24 was bought up even a giant biblically as Paul struggled with sin....giving me hope

Edited October 29, 2007 by miya

[Phil.2:12]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

I'm not sure I'm reading your statement correctly? You first speak of a "born-again believer in Jesus retaining his original sin nature in your question, but you note that (many Christians are not born again.) Can you support that quote with scripture verse? I would think that the two suppor each other. When you're "born-again" you begin to strive to be "Christ-like.) To be "Christ-like) is to stive to be Like Christ. From this point you accept Christ in your heart and begin to follow the path to God and avoid sin in your life you are considered "born again." If you have a different take on this, please respond. I think this is important to clarify.

Blessings

Cajunboy

I'll be happy to respond to your question Cajunboy (I like that handle). Many people today consider their membership in a church or in a denomination to be the thing which makes them a Christian. For all of my childhood and my youth, I was a catechized member of the Lutheran church and was considered by all my peers to be a Christian. The only thing wrong with this perception is the fact that I had jumped through all the denominational hoops and so was considered to be a Christian, but I had never accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

During all the time I was jumping through the denominational hoops, no one ever asked me to accept Jesus as my Savior, so I didn't, yet I was considered a Christian. Because of this personal experience and the subsequent experiences of people I have personally led to Jesus who have similar experiences of being taken as a Christian without ever having accepted Jesus as their Savior, I know that there are plenty of people out there who claim the title of Christian because it fits their lifestyle, yet have never accepted Jesus as their Savior.

Taking the name "Christian" sure stops many an awkward conversation about Jesus with people you don't really know who are trying to witness to you about Jesus. So, those who either don't know they need to accept Jesus to be a Christian or those trying to escape the "witnessing scene" will wear the label of "Christian" even they are not really a Christian in the biblical sense.

Hope this helps you to understand why I always qualify the term "Christian" with the "born-again" qualifier.

[jesusiskingofkings]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

I haven't read any of the other posts yet, but I think we are sinners that are saved by grace and retain the sin nature in the flesh. I believe because Paul himself had addressed this in Rommans, he spoke how we have a war within ourselves, the flesh man is in war with the spirit man that we have now become. I think this is why we have daliy fellowship with our Lord Jesus christ, in prayer and bible study.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.

Rom 7:17 But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.

Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do.

Rom 7:20 But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;

Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

If Paul himself said he wars with this what makes us any different? Also in Hebrews it says we have an high priest(Jesus) in heaven at the right hand of the father should we mess up and give into that sinful nature. Are we to purposely do things that are flesh related? No, we are to try our best, but the law can no longer hold us guilty if we stumble, because we now can take all our offences, and slip ups, and cover them under the presceous blood of Jesus.

The differance is now the spirit man is awake with in us, showing us the error of flesh man, this is why the christian has a change. The guilt the spirit man puts on the flesh man, now guides us to an inner, the man that is gong to win is the man we feed.

We decide what man we feed by the things we watch, read hear and do. If we want a stronger spirit man, than that is the one we cater to. I am guilty of feeding the flesh man from time to time. Thst is why we are indepted to Jesus, by taking up our cross daily. What we had trouble laying down yeaterday a hold in the flesh, we have a new chance daily of over coming our bad habbits, that we might nail them once and for all to the cross.

Much love in Christ Jesus,

Sister Bridget