Feminism is anti-Christ

[Openly Curious]

I don't have time to respond to everything right this moment but I will get to your requests, AK. wink.gif

Regarding v.11 notice that v.12 is the qualifier. '12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman.' Therefore ALL men come from a woman their mother. In this sense as woman came from man ALL men come from women therefore

'in the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.' You see you are misunderstand what Paul meant by woman is not independant of man nor man independent of woman. The qualifier wasn't marriage but ORIGIN!!! wink.gif

I have to go but I'll be back.

Okay. So in the church, since that is the direct context, women are to submit to men. The context is within a church setting, so you haven't really done anything Firehill except limit even more.

Now onto kephale.

We submit to our male leaders, and our female leaders as unto the Lord.

This doesn't make any sense to me floatingaxe I mean if there is equality as you believe in Christ and everybody is on the same ground then why is there submission expected in the church to either gender seeing that Christ is the head and only authority. Just seems in your view on things these leaders would be the hierarchy. The believers should be free to do as they wish in following the Lord Jesus Christ you know because of the new order you mentioned. confused

OC

Why is there submission in the Church? Are you kidding? Because leaders are to be servants. We learn leadership by serving! There is no place in the Church for one-upmanship, or competition. God places authorities over us in the Body--surely you don't deny that.

The Church is not the same as the home.

Well surely you can't deny that woman is an extention of the man's body and they are one seeing woman was taken out of man then you can clearly see who the head of the woman's body is and it is the man as this is a great mystery Paul said but I speak of Christ and the church.

It's about the body in the home doing the will of the Lord in their given role or gender. Man was not taken out of woman and is not an extension of the woman's body but just the opposite. Christ is the head of the church and we as believers are an extention of Christ's body by the blood that was shed and the church is the body but Christ is the head of that church family.

So it is in the home the husband is the head of his family and they are extentions of his body as they came from him.

I know why there are leaders in the church but it is in your views that women do not have to submit to their husbands because that would make her husband somehow above God if they did so well it just don't fit.

OC

[Emily~Anne]

You've no idea how thrilled I am to hear that if we are ever blessed with another child, labor and birth will be totally pain free!!!!

[apothanein kerdos]

By the way, if the curse is lifted, I guess all the men are free to quit their jobs. They no longer have to labor to eat. Women will be glad to know they can give birth free from pain, and I guess the mortuaries will be going out of business. I am also looking forward to seeing snakes walking upright.

God never cursed man. He only cursed the serpent and the ground.

You're right, we must still be in the Garden of Eden.

Here's scripture:

Genesis 3:14-19

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

"Cursed are you above all the livestock

and all the wild animals!

You will crawl on your belly

and you will eat dust

all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity

between you and the woman,

and between your offspring [a] and hers;

he will crush your head,

and you will strike his heel."

16 To the woman he said,

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;

with pain you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you."

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'

"Cursed is the ground because of you;

through painful toil you will eat of it

all the days of your life.

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,

and you will eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your brow

you will eat your food

until you return to the ground,

since from it you were taken;

for dust you are

and to dust you will return."

Interetsing how only this part of verse 16 applies: To the woman he said,

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;

with pain you will give birth to children.

But not this part of the same verse: Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you.

And to think, I was going to waste time running freight down to Florida when the whole time I don't have to work because the curse has been lifted? I guess I can turn in my notice and just pick fruit from the tree of life.

Exactly. We have a missionary professor at our school that, before leaving Africa, had a child die in his arms from malnutrition. He always brings this up as why we should help people in Africa. WHAT AN ABSURD FELLOW! Does he not know that man wasn't cursed with disease and death because of the fall?!?!? Man isn't cursed at all!

[Emily~Anne]

If wives are not called to obey their husbands, and the marriage relationship serves as a picture of Christ and the Church, does this mean the Church is not called to obey Christ?

I am very, very interested to hear the response to this.

[apothanein kerdos]

If wives are not called to obey their husbands, and the marriage relationship serves as a picture of Christ and the Church, does this mean the Church is not called to obey Christ?

I am very, very interested to hear the response to this.

Well, you see, it's a metaphor that shows that fathers aren't the leaders of the family...

[Kabowd]

The problem is, people who argue for "equality" in roles don't realize (apparently) that in doing so they destroy God's design, His order, and the picture He set up in the relationship between Christ and the Church. Ours is a God of order, and authority (and response to authority) is HIGHLY important to Him. He established it in the Garden, and to reject it is to commit the same sin Eve did....to desire autonomy and reject authority. Remember, "equality" (i.e. "equal with God") was what enticed her to begin with. At the heart of it, it's rebellion. Whether you're a man or a woman, rejecting God's order within the home goes way beyond "equality", it reveals a desire to be without authority. It's sin.

[Neopatriarch]

Here's my main contribution to the thread -

Everyone keeps arguing that kephale means "source" or "origin." This commits the error of "semantic obsolescence." In Classical Greek, even in Classical Greek lexicons (such as LSJ), kephale DOES mean "source." However, the New Testament was composed quite a few centuries after the Classical period, and was written in Koine Greek, not Classical Greek. By the time the Bible was written in Koine Greek, kephale had changed from "source" to "authority."

Thus, any argument saying that kephale means "origin" is based upon an earlier meaning of the word and not the meaning of the word at that time.

In fact, I can take this further if you want and prove how this continues to perform an appeal to an unlikely meaning (another exegetical fallacy). Just say the word and I'll continue.

It's worse than this since the LSJ reference is to the endpoint of a river, not people.

-Neopatriarch

[apothanein kerdos]

Here's my main contribution to the thread -

Everyone keeps arguing that kephale means "source" or "origin." This commits the error of "semantic obsolescence." In Classical Greek, even in Classical Greek lexicons (such as LSJ), kephale DOES mean "source." However, the New Testament was composed quite a few centuries after the Classical period, and was written in Koine Greek, not Classical Greek. By the time the Bible was written in Koine Greek, kephale had changed from "source" to "authority."

Thus, any argument saying that kephale means "origin" is based upon an earlier meaning of the word and not the meaning of the word at that time.

In fact, I can take this further if you want and prove how this continues to perform an appeal to an unlikely meaning (another exegetical fallacy). Just say the word and I'll continue.

It's worse than this since the LSJ reference is to the endpoint of a river, not people.

-Neopatriarch

I should have added that.

[Vickilynn]

It seems to me that what you are trying to do is to use men's sinfulness as an excuse for dismissing God's order.

Shalom Ruth,

You wrote this in reply to ooopsMartin's post.

I believe you hit the nail on the head (or is that headship!/)

Anyway, what we see here is a reliance in human reasoning to dismiss G-d's commands for the wife to obey her husband. To do this martin cites those husbands who abuse the position of leader and head of the wife.

However, in the Scriptures, man's sinful actions NEVER negate G-d's design, His plan and His commands.

It is a poor excuse to hold up those men who do not lovingly lead their wives in the Christian faith as proof that the command does not exist.

I echo Butero's posts and ask again if people believe the Bible to be the Holy Spirit-inspired, inerrant Word of G-d, or do we make our own rules because they seem right to us in our human reasoning.

[Vickilynn]

Could it be that today's men are trying to duck their God-ordained responsibility for their wives and families, and the authority that attends such responsibilitiy? It wouldn't be the first time. Nothing new under the sun.......

Isaiah 3:12

"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths."

Ruth

Shalom Ruth,

Honestly, I feel that is a lot of what is going on with men here. They do not WANT the responsibility of the calling of leaders that G-d has ordained, so they twist Scripture to justify disobeying G-d's design and plan.

And for the women, I believe it is pure feminist agenda and fleshly pride that causes a woman to refuse to submit and obey her husband as the Scriptures command.