Does God love Homosexuals Too?

[secondeve]

As we are created in the image of God, then every emotion we possess is possessed by God.

So God can lust? I mean, you could try and categorise lust as being exclusively a sin rather than an emotion, but the Bible states more than once that God is capable of jealousy despite jealousy/envy being a deadly sin, so it seems just as reasonable to conclude that, working from this basis, God can feel "sinful" emotions, too, rather than just pure ones.

Which raises the question: if God is perfect but can feel lust and jealousy, then are these emotions inherently sinful no matter who feels them, or are they only sinful for mankind, and not God?

Lust isn't an emotion. Lust is an overwhelming desire for something. At best, it can be the misuse of an emotion (desire).

Arguably, jealousy fits this definition, too - an overwhelming desire for something. But the Bible doesn't say God is a desirous God; it specifies jealous. So, once again, if jealousy, why not lust, and as asked above, does this mean these emotions are only sinful for humans, and not God? Bearing in mind that my initial line of inquiry was sparked by Floatingaxe's comment, I still think the question stands beyond it because of the jealousy precedent.

It only says God is jealous in relation to human love. In other words, God does not force our love or obedience, thus man can choose not to give Him what He deserves. Thus, God is jealous of our love.

I am not dead set on this either. I would have no problem admitting that we have some emotional traits that God does not posses, but these emotional traits would always be evil (such as lust, if it were to be determined as an emotional trait).

I would have thought this could be inferred, but isn't actually specified. The verse I'm thinking of simply says "the Lord our God is a jealous God," which, in the absence of another verse that specifically limits this statement, would seem to apply equally to any kind of jealousy.

I have no problem with the possibility that we have traits that God, if he exists, doesn't; however, I am sceptical of the idea that the Bible supports this claim outright. Instead, as in other areas, it seems this would have to be inferred from several unrelated or different verses; and, what's more, I think it would be just as easy to infer the opposite using equally reasonable inference from other verses.

Hypothetically, one might argue that, as mankind is flawed - or had at creation the potential for flaw - and as mankind is also made in God's image, so then may God be flawed, or carry within him the potential for flaw. We know that God is capable of both anger and jealousy, but we also know that these behaviours are sinful for mankind. It should also be noted that there are no stated exceptions for when anger or jealousy are permissable; that is, regardless of whether we are angry at a rapist or jealous on God's behalf of the adoration a pagan gives an idol, these are still sins: in other words, despite the common usage of the phrase, there would seem to be no set definition or even moral allowance for the concept of righteous anger. Further, we see God not only act on these emotions, but punish humankind for acting similarly. From this, then, we might reasonable infer that God shares at least anger and jealousy with us. Which leaves two potential options: either anger and jealousy are not universally, inherently bad, and are therefore OK for God but sinful for us; or they are universally, inherently bad, and God - while not corrupted by Sin, as sin was specific to humankind - is nonetheless flawed for both feeling and acting upon them.

There is obviously a counter-argument to be made to this. But the point I'm making is that if I can reasonably infer this conclusion from the Bible, then it cannot be said that your position is definitive.

[apothanein kerdos]

I would have thought this could be inferred, but isn't actually specified. The verse I'm thinking of simply says "the Lord our God is a jealous God," which, in the absence of another verse that specifically limits this statement, would seem to apply equally to any kind of jealousy.

Well we have to ask ourselves, what else could God be jealous of? Within the that context, God is forbidding the worship of idols and other Gods. God says He forbids this because He is a "jealous God." The context shows that He is jealous of man's love and attention.

I have no problem with the possibility that we have traits that God, if he exists, doesn't; however, I am sceptical of the idea that the Bible supports this claim outright. Instead, as in other areas, it seems this would have to be inferred from several unrelated or different verses; and, what's more, I think it would be just as easy to infer the opposite using equally reasonable inference from other verses.

It's nearly impossible to infer that we do not hold the communicable traits of God. God calls man to reason with Him in Isaiah, which means both man and God have that ability.

Regardless, the most blatant scripture that is going to state we have the communicable attributes of God is in Genesis where it says He breathed life into man. It specifically says that He made us in His image. To have something in ancient times "in your own image" as a king meant you had a representation of you at the ends of your empire. This was done so people would always understand that they were under your domain. By using this language it is saying that there are parts of us that serve as reminders of who we belong to and who holds ultimate domain over this earth, though we are not completely Him.

Hypothetically, one might argue that, as mankind is flawed - or had at creation the potential for flaw - and as mankind is also made in God's image, so then may God be flawed, or carry within him the potential for flaw.

Not at all. If one takes the belief of the Bible, then we have to accept that man is flawed by man's own doing. We caused man to be flawed by sinning. Plus, this image is not complete - where man was fallible God is infallible, simply because we are the image of God and not the duplicate of God.

Furthermore, we have Jesus who did serve as the perfect image of God, to whom we are to be conformed.

We know that God is capable of both anger and jealousy, but we also know that these behaviours are sinful for mankind. It should also be noted that there are no stated exceptions for when anger or jealousy are permissable; that is, regardless of whether we are angry at a rapist or jealous on God's behalf of the adoration a pagan gives an idol, these are still sins: in other words, despite the common usage of the phrase, there would seem to be no set definition or even moral allowance for the concept of righteous anger.

I think you're confusing what Christians have said to you with what scripture actually says. No where does it call anger a sin. In fact, it goes so far as to say do not sin in your anger. It is perfectly okay to be angry, or to be jealous for God (this, too, is never forbidden). Scripture never comes out and forbids these things. It does forbid us from having a temper problem, and it does forbid us from being jealous of someone's material possessions (as it specifies) or simply of other people...but it never forbids righteous anger or jealousy.

Further, we see God not only act on these emotions, but punish humankind for acting similarly. From this, then, we might reasonable infer that God shares at least anger and jealousy with us. Which leaves two potential options: either anger and jealousy are not universally, inherently bad, and are therefore OK for God but sinful for us; or they are universally, inherently bad, and God - while not corrupted by Sin, as sin was specific to humankind - is nonetheless flawed for both feeling and acting upon them.

Or with the third option - you created a false dichotomy from a misunderstanding of the Scriptures. God is justified when He is jealous and angry...likewise, man can be justified when he is angry or even jealous (if a man's wife is cheating on him, he would become both angry and jealous, and both reactions would be justified).

[MeCajunboy]

nt

Cajunboy::::: Not sure what "nt" represents here, justaguy?? If you're referencing New Testament, the scriptures/versus represented above are also from Old Testament! Please explain "nt??" If you're arguing that the people here have no place here to dispute what God states in HIS word, that would be a wrong assumption also. We are only obligated to quote what God states in HIS commands. "God gives one man for one woman!" He does not allow for any other type of relationship. If a "homosexual" wants to be converted badly enough, HE CAN! Homosexuality is a SIN ! As is murder, stealing, lying against your neighbor, not honoring or disgracing your parents and the many other commands God gives us. If we die with these commands on our beds, we do not really know the consequesces God has in store for us that we will take into HIS world. We only know what HE tells us. And we know that God is horribly offended by homosexuality, fornication and the many other sins of the flesh. The deeper a person dealves into homosexuality the more he/she will feel like there is no possible way out, just as any of the other crosses we all have to bare. AND WE ALL HAVE CROSSES TO BARE! Some appear more severe on the outside or to others that observe, but each cross upon us is just as difficult as the other. Only God can see us through each of our crosse we have to shed, through repentence and for many of us , only time and our persistence with God will get us through them. You do know know each of our hearts just as we do not know each heart of any given sinner, but we do know we have to live within the LAWS of God ! And to think or say "HE made me this way" is an insult to the Creator who made us. And it's is also not taking responsibility for our own walk in life! It's riding on the backs of those who created a false sense of support, as in homosexuality ! KNOW GOD or NO GOD!

Be Blessed

Cajunboy

[CaritateDei]

Yes, I typed this earlier but decided to post it as a topic so that I could get a legitimate response.

If God smote Sodom and Gomorrah (plz don't kill me on spelling, I do not have my bible on hand) for the homosexual acts committed there, does he love the gays? Or were they just so far gone that God knew that they would only pervert the world? What?

Punishment does not equate "hate" or lack of love.

Punishment is actually the equivalent of love!

[MeCajunboy]

As we are created in the image of God, then every emotion we possess is possessed by God.

So God can lust? I mean, you could try and categorise lust as being exclusively a sin rather than an emotion, but the Bible states more than once that God is capable of jealousy despite jealousy/envy being a deadly sin, so it seems just as reasonable to conclude that, working from this basis, God can feel "sinful" emotions, too, rather than just pure ones.

Which raises the question: if God is perfect but can feel lust and jealousy, then are these emotions inherently sinful no matter who feels them, or are they only sinful for mankind, and not God?

Cajunboy::::

God is not capable of sin! Only man has that determination! God is LOVE and LUST is not love.

Be Blessed

Cajunboy

[tired-of-fakes]

Thank you all for your responses. It was quite revealing. Justaguy, I ask you this only because I question your ability to challenge me on my simple question. Are you a homosexual? If you do not wish to respond that is fine but I would like to know how it is you can question my knowledge of how a homosexual thinks if you yourself are not capable of understanding yourself. Furthermore, I never claimed to understand how a homosexual thinks. That was not what was in question. What I questioned was whether or not the Lord loved them despite. It has been made quite clear that he does, even if he dislikes the sin.

[melvin2007]

I'm not Justaguy but perhaps nt means 'not true'??

[Motivated By Grace]

Yes, I typed this earlier but decided to post it as a topic so that I could get a legitimate response.

If God smote Sodom and Gomorrah (plz don't kill me on spelling, I do not have my bible on hand) for the homosexual acts committed there, does he love the gays? Or were they just so far gone that God knew that they would only pervert the world? What?

As we are created in the image of God, then every emotion we possess is possessed by God.

So God can lust? I mean, you could try and categorise lust as being exclusively a sin rather than an emotion, but the Bible states more than once that God is capable of jealousy despite jealousy/envy being a deadly sin, so it seems just as reasonable to conclude that, working from this basis, God can feel "sinful" emotions, too, rather than just pure ones.

Which raises the question: if God is perfect but can feel lust and jealousy, then are these emotions inherently sinful no matter who feels them, or are they only sinful for mankind, and not God?

Lust isn't an emotion. Lust is an overwhelming desire for something. At best, it can be the misuse of an emotion (desire).

Arguably, jealousy fits this definition, too - an overwhelming desire for something. But the Bible doesn't say God is a desirous God; it specifies jealous. So, once again, if jealousy, why not lust, and as asked above, does this mean these emotions are only sinful for humans, and not God? Bearing in mind that my initial line of inquiry was sparked by Floatingaxe's comment, I still think the question stands beyond it because of the jealousy precedent.

God loves all men generally, but due to His knowledge of everything past, present and future, He may individually pronounce His hatred for this one or that, as He did on Esau (Romans 9:13 and Mal. 1:2). God knows all things we are, things we will be, and the things we will never be. In this knowledge He can pronounce His judgment if He so desires...

Very few sins are classified as "abominations", but homosexuality is one of them (Leviticus 18:22 ). Homosexualism is not "gay". Far from it.

In our New Covenant with God, Jesus provides the homosexual an avenue to overcome (Romans 5:6) his sin. Any born again Christian will now live in the "newness of the Spirit". This is an ongoing process. Christians may struggle with homosexuality, but God will lead them through the red sea.

To elaborate though, if you're a practicing homosexual in the pulpit with no repentance in your heart and mind for your sin, you need to be born again of the Spirit...

Concerning emotions:

Emotions are simply "responders" to what we are thinking. This is a very deep subject that requires much thought. Many victories can be gained by internalizing the truth of the above statement, simplistic as it is.

To distinguish God from man concerning emotions? God's emotions will only follow God's thoughts, knowledge and wisdom. In the same way, man's emotions will follow man's limited and fallen thoughts, knowledge and wisdom. Will there be a difference in the two? You better believe it!

Edited June 8, 2007 by Motivated By Grace

[nebula]

Hey -

I apologize for not having the time to read through this thread to get the gist of where it is going, but this seemed the right place to post this.

*****

After 29 years as a gay activist, former lesbian magazine publisher Charlene Cothran stunned the homosexual community when she announced she had become a Christian.

She has renounced her homosexuality, and changed the format of her magazine to spread the Gospel to the gay community.

<snip>

"When the Lord saved me, I knew everything would change," she said. "All of the ads, the editorials, the mission of the magazine had changed. We're going to be calling people out of homosexuality."

Most of the response from the gay and lesbian community has been fierce and negative. But she says she knows that many of them are just as conflicted as she was.

Cothran said, "In order to fill up this empty space, they pretend to put on this wonderful face, 'how gay and happy I am,' when in fact -- there's a lot of loneliness in the gay community that's not talked about, and it's real."

But there has been positive feedback as well. Cothran says she gets lots of e-mails from people who say they struggle with homosexuality and want out.

Read the entire transcript here .

[AnotherTraveler]

God hates sin, and He has determined to destroy all sin. God loves the world, but He calls us all to come out and be seperate unto him, and not to tough the unclean thing. Whatever sin we justify rather than repent of is certain to bring us death.

No active homosexual will be in heaven, but neither will any active lier, thief, or adulterer.