The God Who Wasnt There!

[MorningGlory]

2000,

Have you even watched "The God Who Wasn't There?"

Oh, come on, Disenchanted. Why would a born again Christian, like me, watch a movie like that one? Atheist drivel is not of interest to me. I prefer realism in movies and anything that disavows the Lord doesn't make the cut.

[sweetycakes]

ALL these objections--and the "documentary" itself--have been THOROUGHLY debunked. This is all very very old nonsense, that the devil's minions trot out periodically, but which has been answered by genuine scholars for ages on end.

A good starting place is to pick up Josh McDowell's classic: EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT.

I can give you stats, facts, historical data, etc, until the cows come home, and I have done so MANY TIMES, right here in this forum. Forgive me for not repeating myself just now, as it is Sunday, and I'm getting ready for Mass.

I'll come back later and respond more thoroughly if others have not yet taken up the task, as some here can so admirably do.

Agree here. You don't need to do much study at all to "defeat that toxic movie". The only reason the movie exists is to generate income from people who want to hear

what they want to hear. There's a market for it, so even though it's total trash, you can't really "defeat" something that people WANT to hear even its a complete

lie.

This is just a case of people heaping up teachers for themselves to tickle their itching ears, or turning aside to myths and fables...

I agree.

This film should be confined to the trash can, along with the Da Vinci code, and anything by 'Professor' Richard Dawkins.

I know for a fact that God WAS there for me when I needed Him, and this fact alone FAR outweighs anything that the atheist community can propagate, to my mind.

[Joshua-777]

2000,

Have you even watched "The God Who Wasn't There?"

I have once, and I was offended. It is a product of the rational responders group, who are high strung atheists who's goal is to destroy faith in Christ.

There is no real evidence to support the movie.

Richard Dawkins is not a scholar on the historical Jesus and is speaking outside of his field, no major or well-known scholars are interviewed through out the whole movie. There is no up-to-date scholarly research.

well heres a site I found about the movie, that has some good answers.

http://www.answeringinfidels.com/index.php...=view&id=87

[MorningGlory]

2000,

Have you even watched "The God Who Wasn't There?"

Oh, come on, Disenchanted. Why would a born again Christian, like me, watch a movie like that one? Atheist drivel is not of interest to me. I prefer realism in movies and anything that disavows the Lord doesn't make the cut.

What negativity! How then, can you make comments about the movie when you haven't seen it? Atheist drivel? No realism? Oh really? Are you sure? No you're not. You haven't seen it. It amazes me when anyone who doesn't have a clue about an issue weighs in on it. Same thing is going on in the Harry Potter threads.

Come on, 2000. I've read your holy book. If I hadn't I wouldn't comment on it.

It all comes down to subject matter, disEnchanted. If you are a fisherman by trade you probably don't read books on quantum physics. No, I haven't seen this film and I won't be seeing it because it wouldn't further my growth in faith. Much like I don't go outside of town and wallow with the pigs because that wouldn't further my attempts at hygiene.

[MorningGlory]

It all comes down to subject matter, disEnchanted. If you are a fisherman by trade you probably don't read books on quantum physics. No, I haven't seen this film and I won't be seeing it because it wouldn't further my growth in faith. Much like I don't go outside of town and wallow with the pigs because that wouldn't further my attempts at hygiene.

Actually, I don't read books on quantum physics because they are difficult for me to understand. I would watch a movie on quantum physics, though. Watching a movie about atheism MIGHT further your growth in faith. It certainly would further your growth as a thinking, caring human being.

I think as responsible people we should explore different positions of thought on a matter that are very dear to us. I would think that a christian would WANT to know what atheists are thinking and feeling. I care what christians are thinking and feeling because I want to understand them. I watch the "trinity broadcasting network" and I read "christian" books. I've also seen Mel Gipson's "Passion" and watched countless other movies and television specials regarding religion. Most atheists are just like me in this regard. Maybe we're just not as closed-minded as some people are.

Isn't it true that christians love to evangelize and spread "the word of god"? Don't they ideally want everyone to be christians? Shouldn't the evangelical christians want to know about the people that they are preaching to?

Okay, I'll give you that one. Christians DO want everyone to believe and there's a simple reason for that. We don't want anyone to perish, disEnchanted. You may have a point, maybe I need to read Dawkins and other atheist works to gain insight. I see nothing wrong with broadening my mind. I do understand atheists to a certain degree though; my older brother is a nonbeliever, always has been. I know that a lot of atheists study Christianity and other religions although I've never figured out why. Christians want to witness to nonbelievers; atheists never do that, not to my knowledge. So why the interest in religion?

[nebula]

I think as responsible people we should explore different positions of thought on a matter that are very dear to us.

Hey -

One thing I have learned about people is that not everyone is philosophically oriented. That is, not everyone finds enjoyment in learning about other positions, other people, other beliefs, other cultures, etc. I have also learned that it's OK if they don't. Not everyone is meant to be a scholar - and studying other beliefs kind-of falls under scholarship.

Some people live by the "if the shoe fits, wear it," "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" code of life. If a Chrisitan finds their shoe to fit, if their faith ain't broke, why seek out other beliefs?

Besides, and this is one area that you may not fully grasp, but our faith is centered around a real relationship with the Lord. I wish there was a way I could convey to you how real this is. Experience in other discussions like this however have shown that I cant convince you it is real anymore than you can convince me it isn't. Suffice it to say, we have every reason to believe that the Holy Spirit dwells within us and leads us, guides us, speaks to us, and changes us. Until you can understand this, then you most likely willl never understand why we believe what we believe, or why we are so adamant about it.

[nebula]

But isn't this rather narrow-minded?

Well, you may find this hard to accept, but not all of us believe that "narrow-mindedness" is the greatest evil in the world.

I saw an appropriate expression once: "An open mind is like an open window. Without a good screen, you let in all sorts of weird bugs."

It seems to me, disEnchanted, that you have a love for knowledge? Well, that's good. People who are knowledge-sponges make good educators. But not everyone has such a thirst to know anything and everything. Most people are content with knowing what is needed for their life and their interests. A lot of Christians would probably care less about religion if they hadn't come to know Christ.

But really - what is a narrow mind? One who won't explore different positions? Are you not narrow-minded if you chose to believe only one position? And is not the belief in non-belief a narrow-minded position as well? Is not your belief that the spiritual world is a fable a narrow-minded position? Oh sure, you will read about spiritual beliefs, but you have pre-convinced yourself that what you are reading is myth and fantasy. How is that being "open-minded"?

If everyone felt this way, christians would never be able to convert anyone to their faith.

Why don't you ask us Christians how we came to believe in Jesus and see if this is true or not?

[nebula]

Okay, how DID you come to believe in jesus? How old were you and have you ever considered or researched any other faith before choosing this one?

In church they talked about Jesus and prayed to the Lord like He was real, so I had no reason not to believe in Him. At a young age, I made the decision to follow Him. I confessed myself as a sinner, asked Him to forgive my sin, received His salvation, and asked Him into my life. And then I pursued Him.

But you know what? He made Himself real to me. Yes, I've been exposed to other views and beliefs, and yes I've been at several crossroads where I could have changed my allegiance. But after having experienced the presence of the Lord, I knew there could never be anything that could compare. All the intellect of the world couldn't reason my experience away. When I can feel His love (and I mean actually feeling) in the midst of pain, confusion and hardship, how could I believe it was all in my head? Chronic depression sufferers aren't known to pick up their feelings on their own like that. I never would have made it through my teenage years if the Lord hadn't been by my side every time I wanted to end it all. Yes, He actually did speak to me. (No, it wasn't a "hearing voices" thing; it was more like daydreaming, only it wasn't daydreaming - I don't know if I'm making any sense with this). Then last December, He spoke a message to my heart that brought me to the place where I could verbally say, and mean it, "Thank-you for the pain in my life," (it is a Biblical principle that pain and suffering work perfection in our lives). Mind-you, it was with great difficulty that I said this, but eventually, I got it out. And as soon as I truly said it and meant it, the chain of depression that had been over me all my life was instantly broken! That shadow of death that hovered over my conscious all the time was suddenly gone! I never, ever thought I could be free from that, yet then it happened. Jesus saved me from my depression.

So, my coming to Jesus you could argue may have been as a result of "narrow-minded" teaching, but my sticking with Jesus all these years into my mid-30's is because I know He's real; not from research, but from His interacting with me. I may not have always recognized His voice, but I'm learning to get better at discerning Him.

I used to be a christian and was very closed to any other ideas.

If you don't mind, I would like to know how you originally became a Christian?

[MorningGlory]

I am amazed that christians can be so absolutely sure that their faith is the one and only correct one. They really could be wrong but most of them will never admit that nor will they ever try to find out. That is being narrow-minded.

No, that is having unshakable faith, disEnchanted. Once one knows the Truth, everything else makes sense; there is no way to go wrong if you follow Jesus Christ. These are not ancient rules set down by ancient people. We live by the laws set forth by God; they are the same now as they were when Abraham walked the earth. While there's no harm in learning about other beliefs, Christians are not to dabble in false doctrines or to consider other 'gods'. There is only ONE God and there is only ONE way to Him.

[kari21]

It all comes down to subject matter, disEnchanted. If you are a fisherman by trade you probably don't read books on quantum physics. No, I haven't seen this film and I won't be seeing it because it wouldn't further my growth in faith. Much like I don't go outside of town and wallow with the pigs because that wouldn't further my attempts at hygiene.

Actually, I don't read books on quantum physics because they are difficult for me to understand. I would watch a movie on quantum physics, though. Watching a movie about atheism MIGHT further your growth in faith. It certainly would further your growth as a thinking, caring human being.

I think as responsible people we should explore different positions of thought on a matter that are very dear to us. I would think that a christian would WANT to know what atheists are thinking and feeling. I care what christians are thinking and feeling because I want to understand them. I watch the "trinity broadcasting network" and I read "christian" books. I've also seen Mel Gipson's "Passion" and watched countless other movies and television specials regarding religion. Most atheists are just like me in this regard. Maybe we're just not as closed-minded as some people are.

Isn't it true that christians love to evangelize and spread "the word of god"? Don't they ideally want everyone to be christians? Shouldn't the evangelical christians want to know about the people that they are preaching to?

Very true. I came came from the "other side." In my case, I was an atheist, with NO inclinations toward Christianity, until my senior year in high school, where I got into intense studies of cosmology and biology. Being taught that a universe created itself from nothing by nothing, (with no answers as to where all matter and energy came from) all life arising from dead matter, and all the incredibly complex life forms on this planet are the product of chance mutations and natural selection, convinced me man doesn't have all the answers...