Message shocks church youth

[freedfromsin]

Paul Washer shocks youths and adults

[url=http://www.gerald285.com/view/?pageID=348993

Edited August 5, 2007 by freedfromsin

[mrs]

Old news, but definitely a sermon everyone should listen to. Along with Regeneration and Self-Denial ;You are Dearly Loved of God ;and The Gospel:Cross of Christ

Awesome preacher.

[kittylover0991]

My one quesiton.. which part(s) shocked them?

[eric]

Paul Washer shocks youths and adults

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...ideoid=14714844

Old news, but definitely a sermon everyone should listen to. Along with Regeneration and Self-Denial ;You are Dearly Loved of God ;and The Gospel:Cross of Christ

Awesome preacher.

Glad you both enjoyed it. I saw the video a few days ago and was very impressed. A very talented young man. Tells it as it should be told.

[mathqueen]

This is a full video peeps, not a snippet, but it is worth the time. Great message, one that should be given more often.

And indeed, what was so shocking? I'm assuming it was that they actually got taught the truth of God's Word and not some feel-good fluff.

[Steven01]

Very powerful message by a brother who isn't afraid of man (through God's grace) to preach the true gospel. Very humble servant of the Lord that makes me want to glorify the Lord.

[nebula]

I can see the message to be shocking to a lot of people who missed the "take up your cross" element to following Jesus. Like the man said, we have been taught to believe that we are Christians just because we said a prayer. Imagine an evangelist coming to your church and proclaiming that the saying "prayer of salvation" doesn't make you a Christian! But yet this is what this teacher is saying!

The litmus test for whether or not you are a Christian isn't "a prayer", but you need to examine yourself to see that you are in the faith, as Paul said.

When was the last time you heard this message?

[soapbox] I know, at least among the Christian music industry, those that proclaimed this kind of message got persecuted by people in the industry. [/soapbox]

I just had a debate with a woman in the Outer Court section of this Board who professes to have been a Christian in the past but is now an atheist. She stated straight up that she refused to be baptized because she had to make a commitment to conform her life to the image of Christ (yet she says she loved the Lord ).

Anyway, thanks for posting this freedfeomsin!

[None]

Thank you for posting this. It was my first time hearing of this guy, he reminds me of Jack Hyles. Same Spirit speaking through him, no doubt.

He made a point that's been bothering me for a long time: he didn't want people to come down to the front, in show of their commitment, because he rebukes people in ministry who claim X amount of souls "won" by their efforts. He was so right for making that statement. Too many people focus on bragging rights and that ends up being what drives them. Numbering "your" accomplishments is of satan's collection of filthy rags, in the pride pile.

[freedfromsin]

The fact that people do not get saved by praying a prayer and those who practice sin are not backslidden but lost.

My one quesiton.. which part(s) shocked them?

[kittylover0991]

The fact that people do not get saved by praying a prayer and those who practice sin are not backslidden but lost.

My one quesiton.. which part(s) shocked them?

Heh, well, this has actually been my whole thing with this preaching that actually "shocked" me in a sense when I heard it, not becuase I know that what he is saying is either true or false, but because to me, it sounds like there is a doctrine in there that I couldn't quite understand/pick up on, and I honestly wonder how much it matches up with scripture.

I guess to actually go into this a little further, I woudl first have to ask what he means by "praciticing sin", as freed had said. As Christians, we will still sin, and many will rebel against God even AS Christians... there are times when we attempt to run from God, like Jonah did, and there are times that even it seems that we are knocking at deaths door, sometiems we still don't turn to him right away... Jonah, in the midst of a huge storm, still didn't turn to God, but instead, had the people throw him overboard, I'm assuming to save their lives. It's evident that he knew God's power, and the Bible says that he was a *prophet* of God. Yes, this was his running, but it was still sin becuase he was running from what he should do. In the Christian walk, we get involved in things we shoudln't get involved in, or not get involved in things we *should* get involved in... is that not "practicing" sin? When he was addressing those who do not show much if any fruit of being a Christian, such as being in the youth group, but still dressing like the world, looking at the things that the world looks at, talking like the world, etc... does that mean you are no longer a Christian becuase you still have things in your life and there still a lot of growing to do??

Once we get saved, we don't automatically become this huge spiritual giant and "prayer warrior", it takes a great deal of time, and even after some time of having being saved, Hebrews 12:1 talks about laying aside the weights (sin) that "doth easily beset us"... those weights slow us down, and bear down on us, and hinder us in our walk. I can point to the first five years in my Christian walk, and I am pretty sure I accepted Christ when I was 8, but I wasn't growing very much. Why? I was in church so I was learning, but it wasn't what it shoudl be. I wasn't in prayer, I wasn't reading God's Word, and I had sin in my life... I'm not going into detail, but I was being what the bible calls a double minded man, who is "unstable in all his ways". My point is, yes, there is supposed to be fruit, and yes, if someone isn't showing fruit, the bible uses that as a measuring stick almost, a marker, a representaiton TO OTHERS as to whether or not someone is actually saved... However, the point is, only God knows ones heart.

My question is, does this preacher (an excellant preacher for sure), believe that one can loose their salvation?

Second, as for the actual "praying a prayer doesn't save you", may I ask something? It is definitly taught at my church and I firmly believe that saying words does not get you to heaven... the bible says that many who call on God and say "Lord, Lord", he will have to say "I never knew you". The bible says that we fall short of God's glory, if a couple of words got us to heaven, then we wouldn't need Christ. There had to be the shedding of his blood for there to be remission of sins (Hebrews 9), and I feel that is something that most of us probably agree on. The bible also says that we have to REPENT, we have to ask Christ to forgive us, which I what I think he is saying in this message. However, the bible also has something else to say:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The bible says in this passage that not only does one have to believe in their heart, but there has to be a confession with the mouth, and I really don't believe that is a "confession" before a church or another person. The bible says that we have believe in our heart that Jesus died on the cross, and raised him from the dead, and then we have to confess with our *mouths*, in other words meaning a prayer... I'm sure we could get into the various theologies of this as to what "with our mouth means", aloud, in our heads, etc, but that isn't the point that I'm trying to make.

The question is, is he saying that there is more to it than there just being a prayer, that it has to be a heart matter and just a bunch of words, or just that one has to beleive in their heart about God, and that they are then saved at the point, and not by actually praying and asking God to saved them?

To be honest, these are two things that "shocked" me in this message, but is there any way I can get some clarification on these issues? Does he believe one can loose their salvation, and does he believe that one does not have to accept Christ, but simply it be a heart matter, and not confess with one's mouth? Or is he saying in that case that just "confessing with the mouth" is not enough, but has to be a heart matter too?