Alcholism and Sin

[Chiquita]

Well, don't we have to be worthy of heaven? I mean, say I fight and fight against a certain sin and in the middle of my struggle, I pass away. Do I go to heaven because at least I was trying? I'm a Christian, without a doubt. I'm not speaking of alcoholism as a problem. I'm using it as an example. I'm just very confused about this. Of course its not easy to repent of certain things as they really give us a struggle but what if we never do with our bodies even though our hearts have repented from the sin? Like I said, what if I die in the middle of struggling with a certain sin?

[tsth]

I find it interesting that you don't comment on any of my posts, even though our situations sound identical? Interesting that you won't comment on my posts, even though I have testified that the Lord delivered myself AND my mother from drinking?

Do you not receive God's Word as Truth?

Just curious.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[damo1]

damo1

but if we are going to talk about drunkards what about the miracle jesus performed right when he started his ministry

jesus changes water into wine

john 2 verses 1 - 11

when jesus mother asked him and said these people had no more wine to drink and jesus said to his mother why do you bother me but said my time has not come and went and did this miracle dont you think that jesus would have said its a sin when he was walking this earth he could have said no and ignored his mothers request but he turned the water into wine and every one was amazed and this was jesus first miraxle he performed

these laws i feel came into affect when he was naild to the cross and i feel its up to the holy spirit in us to convict no matter how much athority gods word has or what paul and the bible have to say on this other wise jesus would have said its a sin there and then and then this would have been passed threw his disciples and so on

when jesus came to a town he did not attack those who wear drinking he sat with them and he eveen ate and drank with them i mean i am reading the same gospel as every one else

tsth said she was convicted and so was her mother how i wish it was simple for me i had to put my self in a recocery program to deal with my addictions and i had to go in twice to beat this once in william booth i stayed their for 12 months and then i went to teen challange hear in Australia but i only lasted 6 months due to what i saw what was being bought in to the place

every one is not like most wear if the spirit of god convicts they obey and are heald on the spot for me and i am only speaking for my self it was the hardest thing i had to do as my other problems wear herroin speed pot and hash and when you start alowing the spirit of god to deal with this i can honestly say the flesh does not want to give in

their have been times in my recovery wear i have been attacked in my dreams to wear i have wokken shaking and feeling the herroin and even checking to see if their wear any needle marks on me and i stil get these attacs today as

the taste of herroin was so strong yet i was clean for 2yrs and it was a constent fight wear i would even have to fast for say 2 or 4 days in prayer my body was in pain i went cold turkey i did not go on methadone like most addicts do today

this was a big part of my life while in recovery and dealing with my own addiction i learnt not to judge those in my church and the ones i also meet threw other christians i walked side by side with them and these people wear sensative as well even my own pastor who would have port or beer or whisky after dinner to unwind he would not put temtation in my path as he was that much of a caring person and he was not a hyprocrite by tormenting me saying you can have a drink

even though most are saying drunkards will not enter into heaven their is one sin that is punishable and not forgiving and that is blasphmy of the holy spirit and we all know this bible passage very well

i cant see how on earth if some one is about to pass on to the next life and repents at their last breath how jesus would knock that person back and say you can not enter into heaven

again we need to be very care full its not our doctrine we are forcing on people when it comes to the warnings paul talks about and the bible refrences given in this topic

it should be left for god to do this not us we can pray for those that we know who are addicted to this and then when they cry out for help and see its doing no good to them then suggest a recovery program as i can tel you the church is not eve Equpied to walk along side of some one as a christian recovery program and those working with recovering addicts are able to help them

how often have we our selves let down those that do come in and seek help prayer alone works but its a hard long road for a brother or sister who takes the first steps in their recovery and i am speaking from experiance my self and seen my self how negative some can be

their is a good group called christians in recovery that reaches out to people like my self i have even suggested in my old church that i walked out of hear wear i live that i would like to start a chrstian recovery program for christians who want to come of alachol and the answer i got leave it to the secular programs which got to me when i was told this as i new sevral who would have loved this set up as most who are not christians and in recovery see some one else as a higher power and not god and often these people fall as they look unto man and take on what man says to them

as i said in my post i am the type of person that wishes our goverment had the guts to stop the sale of alcahol all together instead of stoping or trying to get people that smoke to quit even though smoking does kill a person alcahol is the main big problem and no one has the guts to say this to those who are ellected in their goverment to take the stand and do something

and even know after being clean for a long time from those addictions i stated i had a big problem with i get reminded in my dreams and the taste comes back from time to time but i know what to do and that is nail those thoughts or when the enemy temps me i tel him he has lost and can not temp me no more

[Sherman]

Ok, here is my question. If we have a sin such as alcoholism for example (while no sin is greater than another, right?) and we can't repent yet we are believers of the Lord, will we still go to heaven if we die? Knowing and having a relationship with the Lord but never being able to repent from one sin that really has a hold on us, do we still go to heaven? Or do we have to repent from everything in order to get there? I'm not trying to get an okay to sin here, please don't get me confused. I'm asking a legitimate question that I always ponder on. I know many Christians that can't kick the habit of say smoking and drinking. Do they still go to heaven?

I haven't read all of the other posts, but I hope they have been encouraging to you. Concerning your OP, thankfully our salvation is not based on how good we are but on how good God is. The good news is that Jesus took the punishment for all of our sins, so that by grace through faith we can receive his righteousness, a righteousness that is not by our own goodness but completely by the goodness of God. Because of the sacrifice of Christ, we need not fear separation from God; rather, we can step into full relationship with God by faith and experience Christ in us, receive His Spirit, the seal of our salvation. So, though we continue to struggle with our flesh, we can be confident in Jesus our saviour, the salvation of the Lord.

Concerning one sin not being greater than another, well that's not quite biblical. Sins very in their short term and long term effects, and God views various sins differently. Proverbs speaks of some sins that God detests, and the NT speaks of blaspheming the Holy Spirit as an unforgivable sin, and sleeping with a cultic prostitute (1 Cor. 6) as especially evil against the body of Christ, the family of God, and to some degree against one's own self. So, some sins are more grevious than others.

Concerning alcoholism, I encourage you to seek to be increasingly filled with the Spirit of God and you will not fulfill the yearnings of the flesh, psychological, emotional, or physical. Seek the Lord, give your heart fully to Him, pursue Him like you would gold and you'll find that such things as alcholism or addiction to anything will fall away from you like an old tattered coat. Draw close to the Lord and He'll change your desires.

Concerning going to heaven, though we continue to sin, as I mentioned before, thankfully our salvation is not based on our perfection but upon the perfect sacrifice of Christ. It is His righteousness that we receive by faith. Of course, as we seek the Lord, His Spirit convicts and delivers us from sin progressively. This is called sancitification. So, draw close to the Lord, seek to know Him better, and the things of this earth will grow increasingly dim in the light of his love.

[Chiquita]

I find it interesting that you don't comment on any of my posts, even though our situations sound identical? Interesting that you won't comment on my posts, even though I have testified that the Lord delivered myself AND my mother from drinking?

Do you not receive God's Word as Truth?

Just curious.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Wow!!! I didn't notice I hadn't responded. I've been all over the boards today bouncing back and forth. I didn't mean to ignore your post but I can tell you that I definitely read it. I read them all. I have noticed that theres some tension on these boards at time. People seem to take things the wrong way or are quick to get insulted or insult in a "white glove manner". Again, I apologize. Maybe this message board isn't for me. I can't tell you how many times different members have insulted me because they misunderstood me for example telling me to "exercise my common sense" on another post. I'm just going directly to God for answers. i don't feel the need to justify my walk with Jesus with anyone but him.

Goodbye worthyboards!!!

[Guest Biblicist]

To rid yourself of old sinful habits you must adopt new habits in their place. Humans don't like voids, if you just try to drop a bad habit without replacing it with a good one, the space will be filled by something else, or even the old bad habit. The BEST habit to get into to help you remove old sinful ones is reading God's word. Pretty soon you will hunger and thirst for God's word [as long as you pray for that] and you will not longer crave the things of the world.

About your last question.....Do they still go to heaven? Entrance into heaven is NOT dependent upon OUR actions, but the sacrifice of Christ upon the Cross. Christ is our salvation, not what we do.

Okay, then let me ask you this. Scripture is always talking about the Lord dealing with sinful people. Things like, he will silence slanderers and things of that nature. If these people that he speaks of is a Christian (lukewarm), and has accepted the Lord as their savior but still doesn't fully understand what it means to be a Christian and they do something bad to another Christian, thats when God says he will deal with them right? So isn't this the same as paying for your sins?

If you are leaving worthyboards, does that mean you do not wish an answer to this statement/question?

I hate for you to leave. I was hoping to learn more about you.

[Smalcald]

We go to Heaven because Christ died on the cross and arose from the dead. If you believe that and have accepted Him as your Lord and Saviour, then you will go to Heaven.

We are all sinners saved by grace. There is nothing we can do to earn our way to Heaven. Christ did it all. But once you have accepted Christ and recognize a sin in your life you need to repent of it. I know that is easier said than done. When Christ walked this earth He talked with many who were caught up in sin. There was the woman who was caught in adultry, Matthew was a tax collector (a pretty sleazy way to make a living in those days), there was the woman at the well. Actually, everyone was caught up in one sin or another. But Jesus never left a person in their sin. When talking to the woman that the Pharisees were trying to get Him to condem for adultery, after they had all gone (because Jesus had told them that the one who was without sin could cast the first stone) John tells it this way

"When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." John 8:10-11.

Well, of course she sinned some more, we all do. But the point is, we need to let Jesus change us.

<>< ><>

Nathele

Abstaining from sin is not "working your way to heaven". We are specifically told not to have certain sins in our lives or we will not make it to heaven.

If we sin and repent of our sins then the blood of Christ is there to forgive us. If we are in battle to overcome the sin then the strength of Christ is there to help us to overcome, but if I choose to keep the sin in my life and don't want to let it go then I stand a good chance to not make it heaven because I have chosen my sin over God.

Ephesians 5:3-6 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus doesn't change us. We change ourselves with Jesus' help.

It isn't the fact that people will sin. It is what do I do with that sin. Do I repent or do I just let the sin stay in my life, because if we do then we will not inherit heaven.

Does anyone with faith NOT inherit the Kindom of heaven?

In general I know what you are saying cardcaptor, I would just add that to want to live in sin, to not struggle against sin would just mean that the person does not have faith nor the Holy Spirit.

[Massorite]

Well, don't we have to be worthy of heaven? I mean, say I fight and fight against a certain sin and in the middle of my struggle, I pass away. Do I go to heaven because at least I was trying? I'm a Christian, without a doubt. I'm not speaking of alcoholism as a problem. I'm using it as an example. I'm just very confused about this. Of course its not easy to repent of certain things as they really give us a struggle but what if we never do with our bodies even though our hearts have repented from the sin?

[tsth]

Alcoholism is extremely destructive. It cannot be dealt with without Truth. We can try and deny it, but it will eventually MAKE us deal with it.

As Christians, we are given biblical instruction for how to deal with another believer in regard to these things, after they are brought to light and not repented of, or acknowledged, yet many do not agree with the practice that is implemented in God's Own Word.

With my own mother, our family, had to experience a period of broken fellowship, in order for her to come to a point of realizing she HAD to acknowledge the problem. She did not have a reason to before that, because for a time, we kept trying to pretend that it didn't exist, or would go away on it's own. It didn't. As I said above, with alcholism, it will get to a point of MAKING YOU DEAL WITH IT, because it will get progressively worse, and progressively reckless, and life-threatening.

1 Cor. 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

We really have to deal with alcoholism in a very honest and willful manner for a person to be delivered from it.

In His Love,

Suzanne