The Heretical Commitments To Christ

[poorinspirit]

poorinspirit - you lost me.

Let me ask this question, then:

If you do not encourage a person to "commit their life to Christ," what do you encourage them to do instead?

"Hi believer,

As you trusted the Lord to be your Saviour, now trust Him to be Your Good Shepherd. He will help you live the christian life. Believe on Him for God has made the Covenant to you declaring that He will do it.

Nice knowing we have a rest in Jesus, yes?"

That would be my encouragement by the grace of God.

Hmmm . . . I understand what you are saying here, but . . .

Philippians 2:12-13

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Why do you suppose Scripture says here to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" if the Lord did not mean for us to put some effort into our spiritual walk?

Perspective: I have known many people who believe in Jesus as their Savior but do not submit to Him as Lord.

What would you say to this?

Hi nebula,

Good question deserves a good answer.

How much can a man boast of himself if he is working out his salvation with fear and trembling? None.

How does one apply this work in regards to rest? What is that fear?

Hbrews 4: 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So when you apply your verse with the verses above, they make sense, huh? To build on that faith, one must be sure they are not engaging in dead works that denies Him thus voiding faith in Him as being able. Thus the just shall live by faith... and no one that places their trust in the Lord shall be ashamed.... but if that trust or hope or faith is divided...then that is like saying Jesus is not able, but we who believe knows better... Jesus is able. We even need His help to believe that too in order to let go of dead works that deny Him.

Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

[nebula]

I have heard one man say.. a child should not make a commitment to Christ because they will not know what they are getting into... and thus he went on to say.. ever since he had made that commitment to Christ, the devil been after him to break it. He concluded that living the christian life is hard. That is one red flag as we all know Jesus invites the little children to come to Him

When I read this account, I do not see the problem as the "commitment" but to this man's understanding of what children are capable of. I commited my life to Jesus as a 4 or 5 year old, in full knowledge of what I was doing. Doing so literally saved me life, but that's another (long) story.

and His yoke is easy and His burden is light as promised in Matthew 11:28-30.

True, but that doesn't mean life will be a cake walk.

1 Corinthians 4:11-13

11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

2 Corinthians 4:8-18

8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

John 16:33b - In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

In fact, you can find several passages of encouragement in the face of hardships we face in life and in our walk. Why would there need to be such encouragement if following Jesus was easy?

One would boast of keeping their commitment since he and she made it since they were five years old, but yet elsewhere, others would judge others by saying because they have backslidden, they need to make a recommitment to Christ, and it was not because they stopped believing in Jesus... they just sinned.

I would counter that the one who "backslid" has lost their commitment. In sinning, they disobeyed the Lord and are not living under His Lordship.

Note, one's "commitment" is not one's "belief". It seems you have mixed the two?

[nebula]

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Why do you suppose Scripture says here to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" if the Lord did not mean for us to put some effort into our spiritual walk?

Perspective: I have known many people who believe in Jesus as their Savior but do not submit to Him as Lord.

What would you say to this?

Hi nebula,

Good question deserves a good answer.

How much can a man boast of himself if he is working out his salvation with fear and trembling? None.

How does one apply this work in regards to rest? What is that fear?

Hbrews 4: 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, ....

So when you apply your verse with the verses above, they make sense, huh? To build on that faith, one must be sure they are not engaging in dead works that denies Him thus voiding faith in Him as being able. Thus the just shall live by faith... and no one that places their trust in the Lord shall be ashamed.... but if that trust or hope or faith is divided...then that is like saying Jesus is not able, but we who believe knows better... Jesus is able. We even need His help to believe that too in order to let go of dead works that deny Him.

Hebrews 4: ....

OK - but . . .

You did not answer the other question:

I have known many people who believe in Jesus as their Savior but do not submit to Him as Lord.

What would you say to this?

In Revelation, Jesus rebuked 5 of the 7 churches for their sin - things they did that were not pleasing to Him. In several parables, people were "cast into outer darkness" not for lack of belief but for deeds they did or did not do.

Do you understand this?

Note, I am not claiming salvation on works; however, salvation should be evidenced by our deeds, and our deeds do involve choices.

[poorinspirit]

Let me ask you this question. When you rest, are you not commiting yourself over to whatever you are resting in.

When we commit ourselves to Christ we are not promising anything. We are just giving ourselves to the one who has promised. I by the grace of God have commited my marriage to Christ. I have entrusted my marriage to Him. It is now His responsibility to maintain my marriage. This is commitment. When we commit ourselves to Christ we are not still attempting to do, but we have realized that we cant do, and we need the One who can.

Hi ruck1b,

I understand you are using the word commit in the definition of entrusting the Lord as we should, but sometimes the word commit is not clear in what you are entrusting as opposed to what you are declaring to Christ.

Save for example.. you first statement above. When I rest, yes.. I am entrusting myself to Jesus in Whom I am resting in. By using the word commtting... you referred to the source for that rest... thus it is on the source as in my faith.. it is on the Lord.

But when you use the word commit at the beginning of the next paragraph, you are not entrusting to Christ anything in relations to us if you just say commit ourselves to Christ. The meaning here is unclear even though you may be thinking entrusting ourselves to Him, but if you don't show the what we are entrusting ourselves to Him with, then the commit to Christ can easily be seen as a declaration of man or to the point... making a commitment.. a man-made bondage to Christ.

Case in point.

1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. KJV

I see commit here as entrusting the Lord in well doing in keeping our souls while we suffer according to the will of God.

1 Peter 4: 19So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. NIV

Now I see commit here when in combination with an action of continue to do good as not one that entrusts but a declaration to the Lord of I will to Him and to continue to do good.

1 Peter 4: 19Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right. NAS

Again the meaning of the verse has changed, keeping in the meaning of entrust as to the faithful Creator but on them in doing what is right when in the KJV, it places the well doing on the Lord in His keeping of our souls. So in this reading, entrusts can become religious as it can become entrust on the Creator for them in doing what is right. KJV makes it clearer as to the actual meaning.

The point here is, as commit can mean entrust.... so can it mean I will. A commitment definitely means I will. Faith definitely means He will.

I am sure you have heard this. If a person was asked to come over someplace... or to leave, that person would say... no.. I have commitments here or.. no I am committed to finishing this. They both sound like they are bound to that. Thus if we are to show our faith to the world, we should not speak of our commitment to Christ because the religious believers.. yes christians... and those outside will see it for what it is... a man being serious to the Lord.

We can use the word commit as in entrust, but because of the religious zeal of the day we live in, with God's help, I tend to declare my faith in Jesus which would be to the religious world... foolishness as they look to the commitments of men to show they are really serious.

Anyway...ask around. When you go to church, hear how people use the word commitment. You may find yourself needing to speak more of your faith in Christ than using that word commitment so that man may decrease so that He may increase.

[damo1]

damo1

to poor in spirit i have never in my life heard so much rubish come out of one person

by by poor in spirit

[OneLight]

You never answered my questions.

Poorinspirit,

What would you call the Apostles commitment to Jesus? It is a decision to follow Him in all our ways. When we decide to trust in the Lord with all our hearts, it is a commitment we make to ourselves and Jesus. Jesus does not pull strings. It takes action on our part. I understand what you are trying to say, but you are definitely saying it wrong. To say that one can not have salvation by one's own works is right. To say that you were hung up by your works can also be true, but to condemn, by your own words, those who have committed their lives to Jesus is speaking a lie. This may be true for you, but we are not you. Be careful on how you bring your faith forward.

Romans 12:3

For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

edited for typing errors

One more question, poor ... when you are faced with temptation, is it not you who decides not to sin?

[poorinspirit]

Hi nebula,

When I read this account, I do not see the problem as the "commitment" but to this man's understanding of what children are capable of. I commited my life to Jesus as a 4 or 5 year old, in full knowledge of what I was doing. Doing so literally saved me life, but that's another (long) story.

Question. Doing what literally saved your life? Think about that answer before you give it. What did YOU do to save your life?

True, but that doesn't mean life will be a cake walk.

Oh I know that, but living the christian life religiously is climbing a mountain.

John 16:33b - In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

In fact, you can find several passages of encouragement in the face of hardships we face in life and in our walk. Why would there need to be such encouragement if following Jesus was easy?

Following Jesus is easy ( does not mean we lack hardship) if you are surrendering to Him and trusting Him to help you. Do note John 16:33b... Jesus is speaking and making a promise while encouraging us. Why? Why say it like that about overcoming the world? A religious person would see that and mock.. yeah.. easy for You to say.. You are God. But I see Him saying.. yes.. I will have tribulation.. going through a doozy one right now where I wish I was dead... but reading Jesus' word about overcoming the world is like saying... He will overcome whatever problem that comes my way because He did overcome the world. Thus knowing He is with me always enables me to rest in Him that He will do it. He will even help me face death and die if need be.

I would counter that the one who "backslid" has lost their commitment. In sinning, they disobeyed the Lord and are not living under His Lordship.

And by the commitment to Christ no flesh shall be justified for by that commitment to Christ is the knowledge of sin. Anyone seeking to be identified by that commitment to Christ has fallen from grace.

Note, one's "commitment" is not one's "belief". It seems you have mixed the two?

Commit can mean entrust. Commit can also mean I will. I have trouble seeing how commitment can be seen as any other than I will... so I am not sure where you think I believe commitment is a belief's?

[damo1]

damo1

to poor in spirit

i am going to ask you a question how many people have you led to christ in this year or the past years ? and when you lead some one to christ how do you walk them threw the sinners prayer ?

how do you share your faith and understanding of who christ is to you to the lost around you ?

what does the great commision say in the very end of matthew and right threw out the other gospels lile luke mark john what does the apostle paul teach us in his epistles ?

what was paul and what was silas and the other disciples doing when they would enter a new comunity or village ?

what heppend when paul was constantly thrown into prision poor in spirit ?

what did jesus say to the women at the well ? what did jesus do for mary magladine when she was about to be stoned ?

did jesus not say thoes who have no sin in their lives let them throw the first stone ? and what did jesus do he kneeld on the ground and not one person dared to judge mary magladine

what does this mean to you and your way of thinking poor in spirit

mattew 10 new international version

jesus sends out the twelve

he called his disciples to him gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness

matthew 5

the beattiudes

3 blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

4 blessed are those who mourn for they wil be comforted

5 blessed are the meek for they wil inherit the earth

6 blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled

7 blessed are tbe merciful for they wil be shown mercy

8 blessed are tbe pure in heart for they will see god

9 blessed are the peace makers for they wil be called the sons of god

10 blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

11 blessed are you when people insult you persecute you say all kinds of evil against you because of me

12 regoice and be glad for great is your reward in heaven for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you

so from what you are saying poor in spirit we should step back and let god and jesus only convict me we need not to bother and try to reach out to our love ones

when my self and many know wear people wil go would you rather be a pig and feed on gods word your self and see those around you go to hell because they do not listen to you

what about the missonerys and the many pastors know that are being persecuted not just in india but all over the world like in indonisia are you teling me they are not walking according to gods wil and in the situations they are in know are they walking in sin and do these missonerys and pastors that are falsly acused for standing up for this gospel and for their faith need to repent and stop what they are doing

this is what it seem to me that you are trying to say in your new post are you jelous poor in spirit that god has not called you to preach like many of my brothers and sisters in the lord who are suffering know for the gospel ?

i have a friend in china who has to get a provisonal licence just to go to church and when my friend in china has to apply for a new provisonal licence she has to tell her goverment why she wants to go to church and these guys shame her to the point wear they tell her to her face stop beliving in what you are beliving in as they say god is not real

should my friend in china be a bitter person or should she put all her trust in jesus when she comes under attac my friend can not even preach to her parents as if she preaches the gospel and says openly to her mother and her father that she is a christian her parents have the right to have her thrown in jail all they have to say is she is forcing her religon down their throats

yet my friend in china poor in spirit lives in fear know one day she wil be thrown in jail with many otf her other brothers and sisters that are suffering know

you are a very confueed person poor in spirit please in your great wisdom poor in spirit explaine in your own words to mean

what does matthew 5 mean to you ? and in your own words tel me poor in spirit what does the great comission say for us who belive in him to do does it not say in the great commision to go and make disciples out of all men

lets hear your great knowledge poor in spirit should my brothers and sisters rigth now in india and in indonesia

stop doing what they are doing because you are jelous that god has not ordained you or you have been given the chance to preach

as this is what it sounds like to me poor in spirit how many souls have you one into the kingdom are you telling me you are the perfect one brother and we need to have our eyes opend to the gospel of poor in spirit as this is what it sounds like to me you preaching again and preaching in ridles wear you do not make your self clear but one has to read your topic 4 times just to get the jist of it

i wil come back later to see what you have to say on what i left for you

by by poor in spirit

peace from damo

[poorinspirit]

You never answered my questions.

Poorinspirit,

What would you call the Apostles commitment to Jesus? It is a decision to follow Him in all our ways. When we decide to trust in the Lord with all our hearts, it is a commitment we make to ourselves and Jesus. Jesus does not pull strings. It takes action on our part. I understand what you are trying to say, but you are definitely saying it wrong. To say that one can not have salvation by one's own works is right. To say that you were hung up by your works can also be true, but to condemn, by your own words, those who have committed their lives to Jesus is speaking a lie. This may be true for you, but we are not you. Be careful on how you bring your faith forward.

Romans 12:3

For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

edited for typing errors

One more question, poor ... when you are faced with temptation, is it not you who decides not to sin?

Hi OneLight,

Thanks for combining the two posts. I had missed your first one and as I keep posting, it takes me to the end and then I have to go back and find where I left off at. Then I saw this one, I went back to see where I missed it and could not figure out how that happened. Oh well. Here I am now, God be willing.

Okay. Where does it say anywhere from Jesus or instructions to the churches in the King James Bible that we are to make a commitment to Christ?

How can any believer not say they have no confidence in the flesh when they speak of their commitment to Christ?

How would you explain away the verses in the first post about bondages that make the Gentiles obedient by word and deed?

How would you say that you are standing fast in the liberty in which Christ has set us free and that you are not in any way shape or form in bondage?

How can you say you preach not yourselves if you are identified by that commitment to Christ?

but to condemn, by your own words, those who have committed their lives to Jesus is speaking a lie. This may be true for you, but we are not you.

Respectfully, the condemnation is already there. I am just forwarding it to warn by scriptures why commitment to Christ is heretical. I have not seen any good fruit coming out of this branch of teaching.

What would you say to this?

"It is not going to church every sunday that is going to save you. It is not trying to keep the Ten Commandments that will save you. It is all those that call upon the name of the Lord." Speaker pause as audience applauds. "If you are not sure you are saved.... come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ."

Take a moment and ponder.... why didn't Jesus nor the disciples ever casted a guantlet out like that?

And tell me how you can convince a religious person that your commitment to Christ is a relationship of trust when you speak of actions and Jesus not pulling any strings as if christianity is a religion? Or do you not see it as a relationship of trust? Is christianity a religion to you? Because.. I gotta tell ya, little children would be hard pressed to do anything but trust the Lord and unless we receive the Kingdom of God as a child.. we are not entering in.

I do believe there is just cause to prune our words to reflect our faith more in Him than in man.

[poorinspirit]

What do you call your self. Do I have to declare what I need to commit to Christ. When we first are saved we dont know what to commit. All we know to do is to give ourselves ie..our very life to Him.

When I was first recovered I did not know to give my marriage over to God, He had to show me. I did not know to commit my time to God, He had to show me and still is. The point is commitment is not a self declaration according to the Biblical def. It is a giving of yourself (the one who cant do) over to Christ (the One who can do).

As I said before when I commited myself to Christ I did not promise Him anything. In essence I said "here is my life it is now yours". It is now His responibility to keep me. I am not my own anymore. This is not to say i just do what I want, but that Christ is the one who then maintains this "here I am".

Hey ruck1b,

I rejoice in what you are saying as far as your faith in the Lord, but surely you have seen nebula's and OneLight's responses, yes? Your use of your word commit will not agree with them as I agree with you actions, so that is why I say... declare your faith in Him because already there are two positions that would declare otherwise because commit and commitment to them is about how serious a believer is.

I just know that after going through that hurdle, I can not speak of anything that bears witness of me and my commitment to Christ does that... but my faith in Jesus declares Him... in how serious He is to me in helping me live as His thus sinners will turn to Jesus for He is their hope for deliverance from sin.