Pastors: Called to Preach, Called to Study

[OneLight]

Even though I have nothing against educated people, I'll prefer the Holy Spirit to teach me.

I think we can learn from people. However, we must never let people replace the Holy Spirit as our teacher.

Many people are so dependent on the teaching of men that they do not even know the voice of the Spirit.

Many people mistake their experiencialistic feelings for the voice of the spirit.

It is impossible to understand text without history. Impossible. Its common sense. Why can't we apply common sense to God?

God has been there from the very beginning and knows history better then anyone. Do you think that the Holy Spirit can not or will not make everything clear? If the Holy Spirit deems that a point in history is relevant, then He will guide us to look it up and help us understand. If one has the Holy Spirit, it should be very evident when He speaks to our spirit.

[Marnie]

Even though I have nothing against educated people, I'll prefer the Holy Spirit to teach me.

I think we can learn from people. However, we must never let people replace the Holy Spirit as our teacher.

Many people are so dependent on the teaching of men that they do not even know the voice of the Spirit.

Many people mistake their experiencialistic feelings for the voice of the spirit.

It is impossible to understand text without history. Impossible. Its common sense. Why can't we apply common sense to God?

God has been there from the very beginning and knows history better then anyone. Do you think that the Holy Spirit can not or will not make everything clear? If the Holy Spirit deems that a point in history is relevant, then He will guide us to look it up and help us understand. If one has the Holy Spirit, it should be very evident when He speaks to our spirit.

The Lord won't do anything for us that we can (or should do) ourselves. This includes learning. We are admonished to STUDY. Of course there are many ways to do this, formally and informally. Joshua knew the Lord's will, and was told by G-d to stop praying and start doing. We know the Lord's will, too. How many pastors, I wonder, whittle away the week, expecting the Holy Spirit to deposit a sermon in their heads on Saturday night? It appears quite a few, based on the astonishing responses in this thread.

[Matthitjah]

Even though I have nothing against educated people, I'll prefer the Holy Spirit to teach me.

I think we can learn from people. However, we must never let people replace the Holy Spirit as our teacher.

Many people are so dependent on the teaching of men that they do not even know the voice of the Spirit.

Many people mistake their experiencialistic feelings for the voice of the spirit.

It is impossible to understand text without history. Impossible. Its common sense. Why can't we apply common sense to God?

God has been there from the very beginning and knows history better then anyone. Do you think that the Holy Spirit can not or will not make everything clear? If the Holy Spirit deems that a point in history is relevant, then He will guide us to look it up and help us understand. If one has the Holy Spirit, it should be very evident when He speaks to our spirit.

The Lord won't do anything for us that we can (or should do) ourselves. This includes learning. We are admonished to STUDY. Of course there are many ways to do this, formally and informally. Joshua knew the Lord's will, and was told by G-d to stop praying and start doing. We know the Lord's will, too. How many pastors, I wonder, whittle away the week, expecting the Holy Spirit to deposit a sermon in their heads on Saturday night? It appears quite a few, based on the astonishing responses in this thread.

Bless you sister,

Would you say that the studying and preparing for the Sermon should be under the direction of the Holy Spirit?

Peace,

Dave

[EricH]

Since the principal business of a preacher of the gospel is to "teach", or to communicate to his fellow-men the knowledge of the truth, the necessity of this qualification for a pastor to be skilled at teaching is obvious. No one should be allowed to enter the ministry who is not qualified to impart "instruction" to others on the doctrines and duties of religion; and no one should feel that he ought to continue in the ministry, who doesn't have the work ethic, self-denial, and the love of study that constantly drives him to increase in knowledge, in order that he can be qualified to teach others. A man who would teach a people, must himself keep in advance of them on the subjects on which he would instruct them.

Albert Barnes, Notes on 1 Timothy, Chapter 3

Given the differing pastoral roles, we might want some lee-way here. For example there are some pastors whose primary focus is visitation.

[EricH]

Since the principal business of a preacher of the gospel is to "teach", or to communicate to his fellow-men the knowledge of the truth, the necessity of this qualification for a pastor to be skilled at teaching is obvious. No one should be allowed to enter the ministry who is not qualified to impart "instruction" to others on the doctrines and duties of religion; and no one should feel that he ought to continue in the ministry, who doesn't have the work ethic, self-denial, and the love of study that constantly drives him to increase in knowledge, in order that he can be qualified to teach others. A man who would teach a people, must himself keep in advance of them on the subjects on which he would instruct them.

Albert Barnes, Notes on 1 Timothy, Chapter 3

In reading this quote, it seems that he is interchanging 2 terms (preacher and pastor). That is where I think some people are struggling with this. Some pastors are not "preaching pastors". While I think it is incumbent on all of us to be versed in God's word, we need to be careful to so narrowly define what a pastor is and does, that we loose the biblical meaning of the term

[OneLight]

Even though I have nothing against educated people, I'll prefer the Holy Spirit to teach me.

I think we can learn from people. However, we must never let people replace the Holy Spirit as our teacher.

Many people are so dependent on the teaching of men that they do not even know the voice of the Spirit.

Many people mistake their experiencialistic feelings for the voice of the spirit.

It is impossible to understand text without history. Impossible. Its common sense. Why can't we apply common sense to God?

God has been there from the very beginning and knows history better then anyone. Do you think that the Holy Spirit can not or will not make everything clear? If the Holy Spirit deems that a point in history is relevant, then He will guide us to look it up and help us understand. If one has the Holy Spirit, it should be very evident when He speaks to our spirit.

The Lord won't do anything for us that we can (or should do) ourselves. This includes learning. We are admonished to STUDY. Of course there are many ways to do this, formally and informally. Joshua knew the Lord's will, and was told by G-d to stop praying and start doing. We know the Lord's will, too. How many pastors, I wonder, whittle away the week, expecting the Holy Spirit to deposit a sermon in their heads on Saturday night? It appears quite a few, based on the astonishing responses in this thread.

I agree. He will not do it for us, but He will direct us to do what is His will and will help us understand what His will is in a matter, even learning something new. We do the legwork, He assigns the task.

Allow me to use my job as a simple example. God gave me a job where I work with the homeless. Some of them are sex offenders. I have been given peace from God to work with sex offenders (I had great hatred for what they had done), but He also let me know that I needed to learn more of "how" to deal with them and the laws they have to follow. I was wondering how I was to accomplish this, and He opened a door with the local sex offenders office where classes are held for people like me. These classes were never made public. This information came to me through another Christian. God assigns the task, I do the legwork.

I can not speak for those pastors who sit there twiddling their thumbs, waiting for a message to come to them. I believe that you must put your nose to the grindstone first, then the Holy Spirit will guide you. As in studying the Bible. I have to first start the study before the Holy Spirit can teach me what I am reading. I just don't sit there and wait for the Holy Spirit to tell me what to study.

[exrockstar]

Even though I have nothing against educated people, I'll prefer the Holy Spirit to teach me.

Holy Spirit enlightens.

If you have a great attitude and beautiful smile then how is He going to enlighten you?

thats why education makes a difference.

[Matthitjah]

Even though I have nothing against educated people, I'll prefer the Holy Spirit to teach me.

I think we can learn from people. However, we must never let people replace the Holy Spirit as our teacher.

Many people are so dependent on the teaching of men that they do not even know the voice of the Spirit.

Many people mistake their experiencialistic feelings for the voice of the spirit.

It is impossible to understand text without history. Impossible. Its common sense. Why can't we apply common sense to God?

God has been there from the very beginning and knows history better then anyone. Do you think that the Holy Spirit can not or will not make everything clear? If the Holy Spirit deems that a point in history is relevant, then He will guide us to look it up and help us understand. If one has the Holy Spirit, it should be very evident when He speaks to our spirit.

The Lord won't do anything for us that we can (or should do) ourselves. This includes learning. We are admonished to STUDY. Of course there are many ways to do this, formally and informally. Joshua knew the Lord's will, and was told by G-d to stop praying and start doing. We know the Lord's will, too. How many pastors, I wonder, whittle away the week, expecting the Holy Spirit to deposit a sermon in their heads on Saturday night? It appears quite a few, based on the astonishing responses in this thread.

Bless you sister,

Would you say that the studying and preparing for the Sermon should be under the direction of the Holy Spirit?

Peace,

Dave

Im confused though. It goes back to my absolute truth question. Say one pastor reads a verse, such as the verse in which the Pharisees challenge Jesus to perform a miracle, and Jesus declines, stating that they wouldn't understand.

I have heard two sermons on this very verse.

One sermon explained that Jesus wouldn't perform the miracle because the hearts of his audience were hardened, and their hearts wouldn't be changed either way. This pastor also explained that Jesus probably felt as though they would see him more of a rolling carnival show than a healer and worker of miracles. The fact that Jesus denied only strengthened his cause.

The second sermon i've heard explained that the Pharisees challenged him to trap him, stating that if he did perform a miracle, he would be arrested, but if he didnt, he would be seen as a fraud. They explained that Jesus answer was a smart answer, and that it would show the pharisees challenge as irrelevant while still keeping Jesus in a good light.

Both of these pastors started their sermons with "I've spent a lot of time in the Word on this one, with the direction of the Holy Spirit."

Two completely different messages, two totally contradicting sermons, based on the same verse, claiming to have the direction of the Holy Spirit.

That cant happen. Who's Holy Spirit is right? Whichever one sounds more like Jesus? Logically you cant leave it up to a Holy Spirit. Otherwise the text would say the same thing. No one would be able to say "Thats what the bible means to me".

People claim to be led by the Spirit all the time and yet their messages contradict.

You can ONLY learn by history, and researching the culture.

Bless you thoughtful,

Why can't both sermons be correct and at the leading of the Holy Spirit?

Ever read some scripture and one day it means one thing to you. Then you read it again some months or maybe even years later and it is like it is all new, again . It holds a completely different meaning for you personally this time. How can this be? I believe it is because we are all works in progress and each time we go back to look at some particular verse it means something different to us because we have a deeper revelation of Christ. Since it is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ. I can't see how a Preacher or Pastor can operate without the leading and guiding of the Spirit. Whether he waits and hour or even a day before his Sermon is due or works on it for a month straight through.

There is no excuse for not doing the work and studying the Word. However that Word means nothing without the revelation of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Peace,

Dave

[damo1]

damo1

i have been reading some of the last comments on this topic and lets not forget that when jesus picked the 12 they did not need a degree to what jesus taught them i was just talking on this point with my pastor and my friend who just came out of bible collage after moving from New Zeland to study at our main head campus in brisbane the christian out reach centres head church is in brisbane its self when christian out reach center started it just spread like wild flower wear churches under the banner wear planted all around australia to the point wear it just grew

their was a deliberate focus on the work of the holy spirit in the belivers life this focus resulted in prayer for the sick by which many wear healed helped and changed for ever

the custom of making an altar cal was adopted right from the start

when jesus called the first few disciples they stopped what they wear doing and followed him the first two jesus came acros wear brothers simon and andrew they wear casting a net into the lake they wear fisher men going on from their he saw two other brothers james son of zebedee and his brother john they wear in a boat with their father prepering their nets jesus called them and it says they left the boat and their father

then the others followed suit philip and bartholomew thomas and mattew who was a tax collector then came james son of alphaeus and thadaeus then simon the zealot and judas iscariot who betrayed jesus

when jesus sent out the 12 he gave them simple instructions but it does not say no wear in all of the gospels that he said you have to have an education to what i am about to teach you

they learnt from the master him self and jesus often rebuked them when he saw lack of faith in them but he did not give up on the twelve as jesus said what i can do you can do this as wel you just need to belive and have faith

brent even told me who just came out of bible collage that its mans doctrine not christs doctronine wear he taught in person when he was alive

the bible collages do what the churches should be doing and we need to be very care ful that we are not placing lables and saying to all new born babes in christ that you need an education to preach gods word

i have seen god raise people frome the streets and i have seen god raise people with in poor comunitys to do what a bible collage teaches its students

remember nicky cruze cross and the switch blade and the books he wrote while with david wilkerson and how teen challange was formed

nicky cruze was of the streets a gang leader yet david wilkerson took nicky cruze under his wings

brent and my pastor tell christians in my church that you do not need a bible collage degree to reach out to the lost and do what christ taught his disciples

and i said it in my post wear a bible collage would come fresh out of bible collage and setle in our church i would put them to shame i even took sevral to kings cross and these guys freaked out

they could not comunicate to the streets kids to the hookers to the pimps or to the home less men when i would walk into a run down old building wear i new sevral wear sleeping one grabbed me and said can you pray with us i said why do you need pray he said we are freaking out

and i asked him did not bible collage prepare you for this he said they took us out but not like this they took us to churches instead of alowing us to use what we wear being taught in class

one even freaked out when a street kid stopped to say hello and hear i am thinking why then did you go threw bible collage what was the point of this as i said also in my post i had to repent of my anger that i had towards educated people and students coming out of bible collage

so we need to be very care ful how this topic is approached

i am putting my self threw collage once i am settled in my partners country for my own reasons

yet the passion i had when i just came out of jail has not left me and this is what also gets up my nose when you are asked to baby sit a bible collage student and show them the ropes when bible collage its self should be also doing this to wear their fears are dealt with and they are taken to the poorest areas of your comunitys and to the poor and to the homeless and to the street kids and to the pimps and to the sex workers which by law they are called and do what i would do

and when people want to learn how to be effective with in the aborigonal community we do the same i dont baby the bible collage students or a christian from the church wanting to do what i am comfterbal with doing

i mean this person just had fear and i picked it straight away and it got me mad but i had to give that anger over and jently say you can do it you wil be fine i am hear i wil not let nothing happen to you or alow harm to come towards you

i have read the last few points and its as if am hearing an educated person is more accepted then some one like my self with out no education but can almost do what christ taught his disciples with out a bible collage degree

so please just be care ful what you say as it wil ofend and show only one side is being heard and accepted

jesus did not seek out the educated with a ba or a degree he picked normal men

i am also sticking with what my friend from bible collage told me

peace from damo

[exrockstar]

Even though I have nothing against educated people, I'll prefer the Holy Spirit to teach me.

Holy Spirit enlightens.

If you have a great attitude and beautiful smile then how is He going to enlighten you?

thats why education makes a difference.

Yes, and you can have so much education to where every single bit of common sense you once had is totally extinguished. There is a balance here, between education and being guided by the Holy Spirit and your own passion. I can learn everything possible about working on automibiles, but if I hate them and don't want to work on them, what good is that education doing me? Conversely, I can love automobiles and want to work on them everyday, all day, but if I know nothing about them, how can I work on them? As with everything else, it is about balance. Your no better off if you have more education than someone else, especially if you have it but can't apply it. In fact you are worse off because your knowledge isn't helping you, it's simply giving you an unfounded sense of superiority. A person with extreme zeal but no education behind it is in much the same boat. I worked in the college education environment for over a decade, and I was always amazed by people who had three titles before you actually got to their name, and they wouldn't be able to open a can of soda without help. I think I will stick to education with no titles attached to it.

sure there is a balance however an education IS needed.

the education meaning how to do an exegesis, learn and understand ancient greek. History, etc.

if you came to me and told me that you have none of these things but life experiences of tribualtions that youve learned from then you

really think I would want to hear your view on God's word?

that's my me saying im a doctor but have no medical education but care about people.

these are the things that many dont consider and follow their gut. Those gut feeling some call the Spirit.

Theyre gut feelings....