If you were on the board of education...

[Emily~Anne]

One concern I would have if we put prayer back in schools, is the wiccans, buddhists and etc. may insist on equal prayer time.

Prayer is not out of schools. Anyone can pray in school during their free time. We just don't have school led prayer in class rooms.

Ok, then let me re-phrase: One concern I would have if we put school led prayer back in schools, is the wiccans, buddhists and etc. may insist on equal prayer time.

[Qun Mang]

One concern I would have if we put prayer back in schools, is the wiccans, buddhists and etc. may insist on equal prayer time.

Prayer is not out of schools. Anyone can pray in school during their free time. We just don't have school led prayer in class rooms.

Sadly, if it were up to the ACLU, the "anyone" you list would not include teachers. I read of one case recently of a Christian high-school coach being lambasted for silently praying with his players in a student-initiated and led prayer. An ACLU representative claimed the coach was not allowed to have even an appearance of praying where he could be seen.

[forrestkc]

One concern I would have if we put prayer back in schools, is the wiccans, buddhists and etc. may insist on equal prayer time.

Prayer is not out of schools. Anyone can pray in school during their free time. We just don't have school led prayer in class rooms.

Sadly, if it were up to the ACLU, the "anyone" you list would not include teachers. I read of one case recently of a Christian high-school coach being lambasted for silently praying with his players in a student-initiated and led prayer. An ACLU representative claimed the coach was not allowed to have even an appearance of praying where he could be seen.

Really?

http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/express...rs20040511.html

DETROIT - The American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan today announced an out-of-court settlement between the Utica Community School District and a local student over the censorship of her 2001 yearbook entry. The student's entry had been deleted from the yearbook because it contained a passage from the Bible.

"While it is true that the Constitution forbids public schools to promote religion, schools must be careful not to suppress the private religious expression of students," said ACLU of Michigan Legal Director Michael J. Steinberg, who represented the student. "In this case, a high school purported to create an open forum for student expression, yet censored a student's speech because it was religious in nature."

http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools/27673prs20061212.html

NEWARK, NJ - The American Civil Liberties Union of New Jersey today praised a decision by U.S. District Court Judge Freda L. Wolfson protecting the religious expression rights of students. The court held that a Frenchtown Elementary School student had the right to sing the song "Awesome God" at a school talent show. The ACLU of New Jersey submitted a friend-of-the-court brief in support of the student.

"The ACLU has a long-standing dedication to defending religious freedom," said ACLU of New Jersey Executive Director Deborah Jacobs. "We are proud to help secure this child's right to sing a religious song at the talent show."

The second-grade student wanted to sing the song "Awesome God" in a voluntary, after-school talent show. School officials refused to allow her to sing the song, saying it would give the impression that the school favored religion.

http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/23445prs20060112.html

Wesley Spratt had been preaching during Christian services for seven years at the Adult Correctional Institutions (ACI) until 2003, when a new warden unilaterally stopped him from doing so based on vague and generalized "security" concerns. In its appeal, the ACLU argues that the preaching ban violates a federal law known as RLUIPA, which was designed to protect the religious freedom of institutionalized persons.

"RLUIPA is an important federal law that was designed to protect the religious freedom of people like Wesley Spratt," said ACLU cooperating attorney Carly Beauvais Iafrate. "That law is undermined if courts give uncritical deference to prison officials in denying inmates the right to practice their religion."

http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/religio...rs20020711.html

"The school's policy against the distribution of religious literature outside of class is clearly wrong," said Ben Stone, Executive Director of the ICLU. "Not only does the policy violate the students' right to freely exercise their religious beliefs, but it also infringes on their free speech rights," he said.

The case, brought by Davenport students Sasha and Jaron Dean and Becky Swope, was filed in federal court on May 31, 2002. The ICLU said it plans to file a "friend-of the-court" brief in support of the Christian students.

To name a few cases.

[Qun Mang]

Except for the jail example, the cases you provided are about the students, not the teachers. In the issue I mentioned, the students had the freedom to pray. The ACLU representive was essentially saying the coach had no rights to any religious expression.

[other one]

One concern I would have if we put prayer back in schools, is the wiccans, buddhists and etc. may insist on equal prayer time.

Prayer is not out of schools. Anyone can pray in school during their free time. We just don't have school led prayer in class rooms.

We have student led prayers in classrooms here....

[ParanoidAndroid]

One concern I would have if we put prayer back in schools, is the wiccans, buddhists and etc. may insist on equal prayer time.

That's only fair. We do not live in a Christian world, and I do not think that a PUBLIC school has the right to impose any sort of religious agenda, even if it is what we believe to be the Truth. If it's a private Christian school, then they have every right to impose whatever religious beliefs they want, just as a Muslim school or a Jewish school or a Buddhist school or any other Faith-based school institution has the right to base it on their own beliefs. But a public school is just that - public. All people from all nationalities and backgrounds go to public schools, and they have no right to impose any kind of religious belief, even a Christian one.

I'm all for prayer groups being organized by students in their spare time though. That way, all groups have the Right to equality, even if we do disagree with it.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Sadly, if it were up to the ACLU, the "anyone" you list would not include teachers. I read of one case recently of a Christian high-school coach being lambasted for silently praying with his players in a student-initiated and led prayer. An ACLU representative claimed the coach was not allowed to have even an appearance of praying where he could be seen.

Are you sure it was a Chrisitan school, Qun Mang? Perhaps a link to an article would help.

Considering this is a Christian school, I am shocked that the teachers were not allowed to air their Christian beliefs. If this was a public school though, I would fully support this. The teacher has no right to share their religious beliefs with students, even if it was as passive as prayer. If this were a public school, I would fully support the decision and back any action taken against this teacher.

But it's not a public school, according to you. It's a Christian school. And that makes no sense. Christian schools are private institutions, designed in private, to suit their own curricula and needs. A teacher praying in a Faith-based institution should not be an issue.

Edit: fixed grammar

Edited November 15, 2007 by ParanoidAndroid

[Emily~Anne]

One concern I would have if we put prayer back in schools, is the wiccans, buddhists and etc. may insist on equal prayer time.

That's only fair. We do not live in a Christian world, and I do not think that a PUBLIC school has the right to impose any sort of religious agenda, even if it is what we believe to be the Truth. If it's a private Christian school, then they have every right to impose whatever religious beliefs they want, just as a Muslim school or a Jewish school or a Buddhist school or any other Faith-based school institution has the right to base it on their own beliefs. But a public school is just that - public. All people from all nationalities and backgrounds go to public schools, and they have no right to impose any kind of religious belief, even a Christian one.

I'm all for prayer groups being organized by students in their spare time though. That way, all groups have the Right to equality, even if we do disagree with it.

Yep, those were my thoughts too.

[sheya joie]

Sadly, if it were up to the ACLU, the "anyone" you list would not include teachers. I read of one case recently of a Christian high-school coach being lambasted for silently praying with his players in a student-initiated and led prayer. An ACLU representative claimed the coach was not allowed to have even an appearance of praying where he could be seen.

Are you sure it was a Chrisitan school, Qun Mang? Perhaps a link to an article would help.

Considering this is a Christian school, I am shocked that the teachers were not allowed to air their Christian beliefs. If this was a public school though, I would fully support this. The teacher has no right to share their religious beliefs with students, even if it was as passive as prayer. If this were a public school, I would fully support the decision and back any action taken against this teacher.

But it's not a public school, according to you. It's a Christian school. And that makes no sense. Christian schools are private institutions, designed in private, to suit their own curricula and needs. A teacher praying in a Faith-based institution should not be an issue.

Edit: fixed grammar

PA, the way I read the phrase 'Christian high-school coach,' and the way I understood QM to mean it, was that the word Christian refers to the coach, not to the high-school. In other words, I took it that the coach was a Christian working in a high-school. (QM, please correct me if I am wrong.)

[forrestkc]

Except for the jail example, the cases you provided are about the students, not the teachers. In the issue I mentioned, the students had the freedom to pray. The ACLU representive was essentially saying the coach had no rights to any religious expression.

Because the coach is operating in the capacity of a public employee, and thus by leading prayer in that capacity, he is using the government to promote or endorse his religious beliefs, thus, his actions are unconstitutional. However, if on his own time he wanted to lead prayers, he is certainly free to do so. This is a simple principle.

For example, if you are a judge, you can pray about cases, you can pray privately in your chambers, you can teach sunday school at your church, but you can't lead a prayer in the court room.