Who are you ok with spanking your children?

[Emily~Anne]

Here is a few other verses I take into consideration when carrying out corporal punishment:

Proverbs 15:1

1 A gentle answer turns away wrath,

but a harsh word stirs up anger.

Proverbs 29:11

11 A fool gives full vent to his anger,

but a wise man keeps himself under control.

Proverbs 30:33

33 For as churning the milk produces butter,

and as twisting the nose produces blood,

so stirring up anger produces strife."

Ecclesiastes 7:9

9 Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit,

for anger resides in the lap of fools.

Matthew 18:6 (refer to first verse when reading ths one, to spank in anger is one of the many ways we could be causing children to sin)

6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Ephesians 6:4

4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

James 1:20

20for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.

Hebrews 12:11

11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

These are all verses that make it clear to me we are not to do anything in anger, especially when it comes to spanking our children.

Hebrews 12:4-11

4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:

"My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline,

and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,

and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. 9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! 10Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. 11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

So as God disciplines out of love, we should also discipline our children out of love. This does not necessarily exclude corporal punishment.

We the parents know our children better than any other human, therefore I see nothing wrong with parents making what some of you call 'extra biblical' rules as you call them as far as how to carry out corporal punishment. Parents have the best feel for their children. If I spanked my children so hard it left a mark, I will have now stepped into the category of exasperating and just plain angering my children. I know the amount of discipline my children need, and when I am stepping into the corporal punishment becoming just plain harmful and not beneficial. I am a firm believer that parents are to remain 'connected' to their children during all discipline. I am very wary of criticizing other parents discipline as I dont know their child like they do.

[Vickilynn]

Here's where I got the word 'beat' from.

Spanking is not "beating." And we are told plainly that the child will not die if he is spanked.

Proverbs 23

13Do not withhold discipline from a child;

if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.

14If you strike him with the rod,

you will save his soul from Sheol.

I did have one child of my own who is now 23 as well as about 12 foster children under the age of 7 over the last 4 years.

I wasn't speaking if you when I made the comments about people replying who were not parents. There were some posts at the beginning of this thread that I was talking about. They said "I"m not a parent yet but I think..." and I was responding to THEM.

I'm not saying that I believe it absolutely wrong to spank your child. However, what's to stop someone from beating a child with a rod?

The Holy Spirit.

You are making an argument to disobey the Bible based on what you think SOME people MAY do?

Of course it's not wrong to spank a child. It is Biblical. That is the point here. Too m any people are disregarding the fact that the Bible tells us to spank. I'd rather listen to G-d than man.

[Vickilynn]

If one reads the text without having an agenda to begin with, it is obvious that the Bible teaches hitting as a form of punishment. You are correct that spanking is not in the Bible, but the use of the rod is. If anything, where we are in error is not that spanking is too harsh of a punishment, as you seem to be implying, but we are in error in that it does not go far enough. When I read the text, I picture the use of some type of rod, or at least a switch, so if anything, when you are telling people they are making extra-Biblical arguments in saying we need to lovingly correct our children by spanking, and telling them they need to follow the text as written, it would mean they should be using something more forceful, like a belt or a switch.

I don't know if you are aware of it or not Axxman, but in Old Testament law, if a child is extremely unruly, and dissobedient to their parents, the punishment was death by stoning. I'm not suggesting stoning dissobedient children to death, but I am saying that if that was the case under Mosaic law, then it is not unreasonable to think that hitting a child who is misbehaving is out of the question either. If anything, it might turn out to save their life. Look at what it says in Deuteronomy 21:18-21:

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of the city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of the city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

The bottom line is Axxman, if you don't like spanking, you would be better off to simply say so, rather than trying to win your argument from a Biblical standpoint, because you don't have a leg to stand on. Following the scripture to the letter would mean a much more harsh form of punishment than anything being suggested in this thread.

Shalom Butero,

Exactly.

What we have here is man's ways vs G-d's ways. The Bible makes no bones about using corporal punishment so this argument against it is not Biblically-supported.

[artsylady]

Hi Emily Ann:

You're right about the anger part and not discipling while you're angry being Biblical.

I stand corrected.

But the other guidelines about how to spank, I'm not so sure.

[artsylady]

I'm not saying that I believe it absolutely wrong to spank your child. However, what's to stop someone from beating a child with a rod?

The Holy Spirit.

You are making an argument to disobey the Bible based on what you think SOME people MAY do?

Based on the verse that says If you beat a child with a rod, he will not die, yes.

Especially if we are to believe it's literal.

[Axxman]

If one reads the text without having an agenda to begin with, it is obvious that the Bible teaches hitting as a form of punishment. You are correct that spanking is not in the Bible, but the use of the rod is. If anything, where we are in error is not that spanking is too harsh of a punishment, as you seem to be implying, but we are in error in that it does not go far enough. When I read the text, I picture the use of some type of rod, or at least a switch, so if anything, when you are telling people they are making extra-Biblical arguments in saying we need to lovingly correct our children by spanking, and telling them they need to follow the text as written, it would mean they should be using something more forceful, like a belt or a switch.

I don't know if you are aware of it or not Axxman, but in Old Testament law, if a child is extremely unruly, and dissobedient to their parents, the punishment was death by stoning. I'm not suggesting stoning dissobedient children to death, but I am saying that if that was the case under Mosaic law, then it is not unreasonable to think that hitting a child who is misbehaving is out of the question either. If anything, it might turn out to save their life. Look at what it says in Deuteronomy 21:18-21:

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of the city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of the city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

The bottom line is Axxman, if you don't like spanking, you would be better off to simply say so, rather than trying to win your argument from a Biblical standpoint, because you don't have a leg to stand on. Following the scripture to the letter would mean a much more harsh form of punishment than anything being suggested in this thread.

You know Butero...I agree with you that the bible 'at one time' encouraged far more severe punishments than spanking. However, both you and I know why those rules are no longer in play...and we both know that they play NO ROLE in this discussion. However, I would like to point out to you...that EVEN UNDER MOSIAC LAW...the parents role was to chastise their child. Even under Mosiac law it doesn't say that the parents hit their kids for being rebellious. The punishment of death was carried out by the Elders of the City...not the parents.

Your view of the rod is whatever you want. You won't find ANY example of the 'rod' being used to hit the sheep (or children for that matter) in the bible. Your view of the rod is probably a result of your upbringing, not based upon scriptural evidence. Sheep are guided by the rod...not beat by it.

I think I'm standing just fine.

[Guest LadyC]

oh, so you're saying, axxman, that God is NOT the same today, yesterday and forever? you're saying that Christ came to abolish the law? am i understanding you correctly?

if you believe you are not to spank, then by all means, don't spank. but don't condemn those of us who do.

[AnotherTraveler]

We had nine children, and we spanked somewhat, but it was not our primary method of discipline.

I hated doing it. There were times I really questioned the value of it, and as we got older (my wife and I), we changed some as to how we addressed any and all issues of disobedience.

As a grandpa now, I am very happy to pass the torch of discipline on to the next generation. I just hope they don't have as much difficulty with their children as my parents had with me.

[patricia1]

We had nine children, and we spanked somewhat, but it was not our primary method of discipline.

I hated doing it. There were times I really questioned the value of it, and as we got older (my wife and I), we changed some as to how we addressed any and all issues of disobedience.

As a grandpa now, I am very happy to pass the torch of discipline on to the next generation. I just hope they don't have as much difficulty with their children as my parents had with me.

okay guys you may think I am crazy but here goes....

The hand that is to be loving, kind and helping should not also cause pain

I believe that something in between you and the child will do.

I have hit my seven year old only twice in her life... once when she was younger to keep her from danger. the other is when she intentionally broke something of mine because she was mad at me. I also took one of her toys away since I no longer had my favorite thing. Never had to hit her again.

I always make sure she knows what she has done wrong and sternly discussed a punishment that fit her age.

I do not want her intimidated or fearful. I want her to do things correctly because of love and feeling not good because I will be disappointed. so far so good. Discipline is a must and a individual choice. One child may need more than the other. patricia1

[AnotherTraveler]

patricia1

My children appear to have come from a more aggressive strain of the genetic pool, I think.

It also sounds to me like you might have been in better control of your own attitude than I was sometimes.

As a young boy, my brothers and I often preferred dad's spankings to mom's explanation's of the course of life and the results of continuing in such and such manner. If dad spanked us, it was over, settled, and we could return to playing.

As a dad, I followed the pattern I was raised in, only I was "dad lite" compared to my dad.

I have come to believe that discipline is necessary, teaching is necessary, and prayer should outweigh them both. I used to speak much and pray little, but now I pray as much as possible, and sometimes I am actually heard by my children. It is funny how the older they get, the more they agree with me.