Pre-destiny or Choice

[getat151]

This is a question I started thinking about after coming upon some scriptures in the bible talking about predestiny...when i first started going to church we were told that being saved was a choice we were able to make..but after reading and rereading some of the epistles of paul im starting to think otherwise...

Romans Chapter 9

16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

There are some that would say that out of foreknowledge god knows who would accept him so he chose those but thats not what these scriptures say.....it says there are vessles (people) made for destruction.....

I use to go to church and the pastor would say at the end of every sermon anyone that wants to get saved come to the altar and confess your sin and confess jesus as your personal lord and savior...i would do that and wouldnt feel any different after but the pastor is tellin me im saved now...then years later i went to church with my mom one time not even wanting to go and i was sitting there and my heart started beating fast for no reason then all of a sudden i was called up to the altar and the pastor prayed with me and all of a sudden i felt god and truely confessed him as my savior...the words just came out of my mouth.......

When i look back at that moment I realize that was gods choice not mine.......i defenitly fall short and ive definetly fallen into the pit b4 but god showed his mercy on me to give me that experience.........When i look at the Gospels you see he chose matthew, peter, john, and the rest of the disciples...they didnt choose him.......even judas was destined to do what he did so the scriptures could be fulfilled..

So my question to you is freewill or predestiny...and if predestiny does that affect your view on god in anyway?

Edited December 31, 2007 by getat151

[OneLight]

After many years, I'm still scratching my head on this same question. God is all knowing, true, but we are not puppets and have a free will. I'll be reading this thread very carefully and allow the Holy Spirit to show me the truth of everyones words. In case you are intrested to what others have said in the past, check out these threads.

Free Will and Predestination, Study

Predestination vs Free will, another debate

Predestination, Election

My Changing View on Predestination

Predestination, what do you think about it., Your views please

Nice Question!

Your Brother In Christ,

OneLight

[patricia1]

predestination~ only because of romans 8:28 and 8:29...yet we have a choice to reject Him.

[eric]

Well it's the old calvinism v the arminianism viewpoin again. I will reserve my opinion until Later. t-u-l-i-p. or D-a-i-s-y.....it never goes away.

[HeatherEljohari]

predestination~ only because of romans 8:28 and 8:29...yet we have a choice to reject Him.

I believe God can pentrate anyone. believer or non-believer but the intensity depends on us. Jesus said you can have faith as a mustard seed if you believe that much a mountain can be moved. Imagine what he can do with someone who believes a little more? I also feel its ultimately comes down to who God chooses, and his choice im sure relates to his all-knowing omnipresent nature.

Heatherxoxoxo

[Mutzrein]

Another provocative question and to me there is a point that needs clarification.

What does it mean to you to be saved? Do you mean the point at which we are born again OR the process through which we 'work out our salvation'?

[patricia1]

Many are called...but few are chosen...is it because many who are called do not answer their phone calls...

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

Let's face it, God could wipe Satan off the face of creation with a single word. Yet, God allows Satan to tempt mankind. Shouldn't God just wrap things up and be done if it's all decided anyway?

On the other hand, God has chosen to allow mankind to think they are capable of making a choice. Now, that's just bizarre.

So, Predestiny or Choice?

Since the principle of Love is repeated throughout the Bible, cover to cover, I think God wants mankind to love Him. Every worthwhile counselor I know tells me that while infatuation is an emotional response to outside stimuli, love is a conscious choice. I say that while God could easily force me to do His will, He wants me to decide to love Him.

[getat151]

I appreciate your guys opinions but none of you explained the scriptures i posted....is St Paul wrong....he said some vessles are made for destruction?

[Mutzrein]

I appreciate your guys opinions but none of you explained the scriptures i posted....is St Paul wrong....he said some vessles are made for destruction?

I haven't given an opinion yet - just wanted to know how you define 'saved' as I mentioned in my previous post. This, to me is an element which many people do not grasp. There is a difference (as it relates to a will to choose) between those who are born of God and those who are not.

Blessings