Pre-destiny or Choice

[OneLight]

I appreciate your guys opinions but none of you explained the scriptures i posted....is St Paul wrong....he said some vessles are made for destruction?

The scripture you quoted starts in a certain way. Let's examine it.

Romans 9:22

"What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,"

This is a question, but a good one. What if God decided to do this. Would He not be justified in doing so, since He is the Creator of all? If He did, then He would have a perfect plan as to why. Some things we need to take in faith. This, to me, is one of them.

To answer your question, No, Paul was not wrong.

OneLight

[getat151]

One light you make a good point...........and i am going to take it in faith.....

Mutzrein: those that are saved in my opinion are ones who are born again of the spirit of god.....and that spirit of god lives in them which confesses that jesus christ lived and died for the sacrifice of their sins.....those that are saved pur their faith in jesus christ as their lord and savior...

[DjZed]

This is a question I started thinking about after coming upon some scriptures in the bible talking about predestiny...when i first started going to church we were told that being saved was a choice we were able to make..but after reading and rereading some of the epistles of paul im starting to think otherwise...

Romans Chapter 9

16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh,

[DjZed]

[i'll ask the same question here, Who in the scriptures, of all the believers, was no chosen?

[patricia1]

esau.

I do like everyones answers.

It is our choice to choose God or not to choose God. The purpose for man is to make a voulunary choice to love Him, even Adam and eve, but some believe they knew no other and really had know choice. I do not believe that.

Was it their love for Him deficient....causing them to think God would ever keep something from them. If there was no knowledge of good and evil,where did the covetous come from to want to be like God knowing both good and evil.

I had no choice in being born at all. But God knew me even before I was in my moms womb I was a thought in His mind. I believe His thoughts towards me as well as every one here and in the past to be loving and good.

Perhaps it is the seekers heart that the Spirit of God comes to a begins to woo us to him until the final choice.

If we choose not to love and not walk with God, He stilll remains to love us . But he cannot change our decision. If He did He will not be true to Himself.

I love my daughter so much.. and I hope her love for me will stop her from doing certain things in the future. The awesome fear Of God more so. I find that if I give in to a temptation that love for that thing is greater and although His grace is suffeicient I chose not His grace. I need to love Him more and only can get that from His throne room. That still remains my choice.

I was looking at Zechariah 14... Found it interesting for this question. Even though it is a prophetic book i find the last sentence of the last verse of the last chapter both peculiar snd revealing.

" In that day there shall be no longer be A canaanite in the house of the Lord. "

[Mutzrein]

Another provocative question and to me there is a point that needs clarification.

What does it mean to you to be saved? Do you mean the point at which we are born again OR the process through which we 'work out our salvation'?

First off, work out is not work on. "Work out" means to live our lives according to the gospel of Christ AFTER we are born again, but that is another topic. Not this one.

I agree but I wanted to clarify getat151's premise - which I have now. Thanks.

[HeatherEljohari]

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Malachi 1:3

There you have it Gods CHOICE. We decide weather we love or hate God- If we have choice why wouldnt God? Hes sovereign. There is no question about this. It just is. Hes everything, everywhere, and his decision is final. So If God hated someone- theres a reason and the reason is just.

Heatherxoxoxo

[Mutzrein]

One light you make a good point...........and i am going to take it in faith.....

Mutzrein: those that are saved in my opinion are ones who are born again of the spirit of god.....and that spirit of god lives in them which confesses that jesus christ lived and died for the sacrifice of their sins.....those that are saved pur their faith in jesus christ as their lord and savior...

OK - my opinion too. Scripture tells us that being born of God is not a 'human decision'. So if it is not our decision, we are left with one alternative. It is God's decision.

[DjZed]

esau.

Sorry! i wasnt clear in my question. who in the scripture that believed , or had faith, chose god? The question is more stating that is i see scripture, all were chosen. start from the begining and work through the scripture. God chose adam and eve for thier role, god chose noah for his role,god chose jonah for his role, god chose gidean for his role, god chase abram for his role, god chose, issac for his role, etc. Even the christ himself was chosen for his role. We too before the worlds foundations were chosen. It is only in our physical, a moment in history that god reveals that we are redeemed and we who belive recieve that, we hear his voice and we know who he is.

[patricia1]

okay so are we dispensible or not? Let us say Noah was called and instructed...and Noah replied NO! Would Jesus find someone else?

I an getting a better understanding of what is being said..

in romans 8-30 i am not sure I am understanding all of the explanation.

If what I read I believe what is being said is that one is discussing Jesus as being predestined and His work.. but I find some counfusion in the plurality of the pronouns being used. Jeus's work is done and even He I am sure was given a choice as well as he also, knowing what had to be done asked His Father if there be any other way..to pass this cup.

All have a function in the kingdom of God whether they acknowledge it or not. Ceaser, judas, pharoah. Jesus I KNOW had a hand on me since a child , but was not aware until I met up with Him. What if I never came to know Him then I was not predestined.?