Is God All Knowing?

January 24, 2008

The real problem is that time is not a thing that can be created. Time is just a way to track the passing of events. It

January 26, 2008

I believe God is guiding all things to an end he has ordained. He doesn

Sion · January 26, 2008

I ask this question after reading certain passages in the bible where God is suprised by an event....and most notably where god says in genesis that he regretted making man......so my qestion is how can god be all knowing but regret something and be suprised at the same time...he cant regret making something if he had the foreknowledge right?

Say you know if you walk down the street and know your going to get shot but you walk down there anyway because theres a greater purpose for doing so which makes you getting shot something thats needs to be done for that purpose...how could you then regret that...youve counted the cost and made your decision.... right?

Surprised and regretted? translated by men who didn't get it?

John 4

24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Psalms 139

7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?

8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.

9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,

10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me.

11 If I say, "Surely the darkness shall fall on me," Even the night shall be light about me;

12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, But the night shines as the day; The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

January 27, 2008

I liken "predestination" doctrines to a programmer and a robot.

if you build a robot and then program that robot to commit murder, who is at fault? The programmer? or the robot?

The robot could not help itself, it was just doing what it was created and programmed to do. Nevermind all the laws that said, "Don't do it," the robot could not help it since it had no choice in the matter. The only choices it did make were part of the programming, which it did not choose its own programming, the creator of that robot did. So then we see in a court of law, the programmer would be found guilty of murder for creating and programming the robot.

In this way we see that guilt could not possibly be laid on the creation(symbolized by the robot) if there were such a thing as predestination(symbolized by the program).

That would be an inaccurate repseresentation of the doctrine of Predistination.

January 28, 2008

Oh, I know that's not what THEY say about predestianation, this is what I say it amounts to, based on personal understanding of morality and the Bible.

No, you just don't understand the doctrine. Predistination simply teaches that God has predestined some people to be saved and others to be damned. There is no "robot" aspect to it.

Programming a robot to murder is not in any analogous to the doctrine of Predistination.

HAZARD · January 28, 2008

Oh, I know that's not what THEY say about predestianation, this is what I say it amounts to, based on personal understanding of morality and the Bible.

No, you just don't understand the doctrine. Predistination simply teaches that God has predestined some people to be saved and others to be damned. There is no "robot" aspect to it.

Programming a robot to murder is not in any analogous to the doctrine of Predistination.

The word predestined is not found in the Bible?

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matt. 22:29).

It is God's will that ALL MEN BE SAVED; "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Cor. 2:3-4).

Now if God wants ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, would He predestin some not to be saved?? I doubt it!

January 28, 2008

QUOTE
quote by Shiloh357:
Well you need to read your Bible:

Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."
(Jeremiah 1:4-5)

Well, I do. But while I

HAZARD · January 31, 2008

quote by Shiloh357:
Is that a fact? What is your exact degree of expertise in the field of biblical manuscript/textual criticism?

.

unred typo replied,

"I can read and understand English and the approved versions of the Bible, such as the NIV and KJV, support my view. Are you saying that they cannot be depended upon? That they are not sufficient for this discussion?"

.

____________________________________________________

I'm with you all the way unread typo' Good answer mate, good answer. The Bible is a simple book to understand because it was given by God to be understood by the simple. Jesus thanked God that the truths of the Bible were hidden from the worldly wise who refused to believe, and stated that God has "revealed them unto babes" (Matt. 11:25-27). Thats us mate, "babes." Jesus gives the reason the truths are hidden from anyone. Its because they refuse to humble themselves to believe and conform to the Bible (Matt. 13:10-17), not because they never had an EXPERT to interperate every word. Jesus speakes of the devil taking the Word from the hearts of men lest it should bring forth fruit (Matt. 13:19-23).

No man can get the vastness of the Bible all at once, we know that much. But the most simple beginners can understand the Bible one line at a time, for this is the way it was given, and it is the best way to understand it (Isa. 28:9-13). One does not have to be a Rhodes Scholar to understand the truths of the Bible, nor does one need an expert to explain it all. Nor do we need a degree of expertise in the field of biblical manuscript/textual, understanding and interpretation. Imagin God punishing people for not obeying Him because he wrote a book which needed interpretating by professors, which they never had access to?

God can not judge people based on a book written in such a way as to confuse people, or which needs interpretation by experts before it is understood. Let the experts read again what Jesus said; "Jesus thanked God that the truths of the Bible were HIDDEN from the WORLDLY WISE who refused to believe, and stated that God has "REVEALED them unto BABES" (Matt. 11:25-27). Jesus gives the reason the truths are hidden from anyone because they refuse to humble themselves to believe and conform to the Bible (Matt. 13:10-17)."

Anyone who CAN READ and understands the most simple human language, can undserstand what it says. Every time any group of persons reads a particular part of the Bible they all read the same thing. If they should read it again, it would still be the same. If they were asked what the passage says they could all do it without exception. If they can tell what it says, and if they can read what it says, then they can all believe what it says; and that is all that is necessary to understand the Bible.

A God who could not make Himself clear, or had to be interpreted evey time He said something, would be no God at all. Almost any human being can express themselves clearly enough to be understood. Furthermore, a God who could could make Himself clear and chose to do otherwise in such a way as to confuse and hide from man those things He seeks to reveal to man, would not be worth hearing. A God that gave man a revelation and deliberately sought to hide it from man, and then judge him for not being able to understand it, would be a tyrant and not a God of love and justice.

Massorite · January 31, 2008

quote by Shiloh357:
Is that a fact? What is your exact degree of expertise in the field of biblical manuscript/textual criticism?
.

unred typo replied,

"I can read and understand English and the approved versions of the Bible, such as the NIV and KJV, support my view. Are you saying that they cannot be depended upon? That they are not sufficient for this discussion?"
.
____________________________________________________

I'm with you all the way unread typo' Good answer mate, good answer. The Bible is a simple book to understand because it was given by God to be understood by the simple. Jesus thanked God that the truths of the Bible were hidden from the worldly wise who refused to believe, and stated that God has "revealed them unto babes" (Matt. 11:25-27). Thats us mate, "babes." Jesus gives the reason the truths are hidden from anyone. Its because they refuse to humble themselves to believe and conform to the Bible (Matt. 13:10-17), not because they never had an EXPERT to interperate every word. Jesus speakes of the devil taking the Word from the hearts of men lest it should bring forth fruit (Matt. 13:19-23).
No man can get the vastness of the Bible all at once, we know that much. But the most simple beginners can understand the Bible one line at a time, for this is the way it was given, and it is the best way to understand it (Isa. 28:9-13). One does not have to be a Rhodes Scholar to understand the truths of the Bible, nor does one need an expert to explain it all. Nor do we need a degree of expertise in the field of biblical manuscript/textual, understanding and interpretation. Imagin God punishing people for not obeying Him because he wrote a book which needed interpretating by professors, which they never had access to?

God can not judge people based on a book written in such a way as to confuse people, or which needs interpretation by experts before it is understood. Let the experts read again what Jesus said; "Jesus thanked God that the truths of the Bible were HIDDEN from the WORLDLY WISE who refused to believe, and stated that God has "REVEALED them unto BABES" (Matt. 11:25-27). Jesus gives the reason the truths are hidden from anyone because they refuse to humble themselves to believe and conform to the Bible (Matt. 13:10-17)."

Anyone who CAN READ and understands the most simple human language, can undserstand what it says. Every time any group of persons reads a particular part of the Bible they all read the same thing. If they should read it again, it would still be the same. If they were asked what the passage says they could all do it without exception. If they can tell what it says, and if they can read what it says, then they can all believe what it says; and that is all that is necessary to understand the Bible.

A God who could not make Himself clear, or had to be interpreted evey time He said something, would be no God at all. Almost any human being can express themselves clearly enough to be understood. Furthermore, a God who could could make Himself clear and chose to do otherwise in such a way as to confuse and hide from man those things He seeks to reveal to man, would not be worth hearing. A God that gave man a revelation and deliberately sought to hide it from man, and then judge him for not being able to understand it, would be a tyrant and not a God of love and justice.

Actually the bible is geared to be understood by anyone with at the least an eighth grade education .

eric · January 31, 2008

Hi all,

I have just read all the posts in this thread, though I started reading when the thread began. I am going to have to read them all again, beacause it's a topic I have been intersted in for years and years,

So for now these are some of my beliefs. I do not question the omniscience of God.

I do believe He is all knowing, however I do not believe that from the foundation of the world, that He knew, me....eric.... would be born on a certain day in the twetieth centuary. to parents that He predestined before the earth was formed and that I would accept Jesus on the day I was saved.

I believe that He did know that some would receive Him and have life etrenal and some would not and die unbelievers, but I can not believe he knew us individually, not at least, before we were conceived in the womb.

That's my take for now..... will add more as I read more.