Do you think tattoos are sinful?

[Ovedya]

Without commenting one way or another, may I ask if anyone has found scripture that tells us to get a tattoo or that it is OK to have one? I've seen the scripture that speaks against it already.

I've not seen any Scriptures that speak against heavy metal music either.

Now, we both know that tattoos have been around a lot longer then heavy metal, so this is a mute statement, my friend.

You mean "moot" statement?

The point was that absence of evidence does not constitute evidence. One cannot argue from silence.

[Ovedya]

Since you seem to be having a problem making distinctions between tattoos and other practices, maybe I can help you. In regard to observances of holidays like Easter and Christmas, just because a pagan religion observed a certain day of the week in an evil way, it doesn't make the day evil.

Then just because a pagan religion observed the practice of tattooing for the dead doesn't make tattooing evil either.

I don't observe the pagan elements of Christmas or Easter.

So you don't decorate a Christmas tree or observe the rising of the sun on Easter?

My only reason for supporting these holidays is because it brings glory to God in that we remember Christ's birth and death and resurrection.

And what if a Chrsitian decided to observe Jesus' death and resurrection with a tattoo of a cross? how is that any different?

We could just as easily move them on the calendar to another day and that would be fine as well. There is nothing evil about December 25 or any other day of the week. I do not believe in teaching things like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

I never mentioned polluting the temple. I stated that I believe tattooing defiles the temple. This is nothing like watching tv, listening to music or using the internet. When I watch tv, I am not defiling my temple. I am not defiling my temple listening to music. Now, one could say that if the content is bad, I am not listening to or watching things that edify, but it is not changing my image.

A few thing: First, pollution and defilement are really the same thing. Defilement is anything which pollutes the temple. It's probably a semantics thing. Second, I disagree that television and music do not or can nor defile the temple. Such things have tendency to change your mind, which is the leading part of your being. Your "inner image" can very much be affected by the media. Don't you remember the old children's song, "Be careful little ears what you hear. Be careful little eyes what you see."?

My argument with regard to tattoos is that it is changing the image that God created. He created man in his image, and didn't do so with pictures on our skin. We are rejecting the natural image, and perverting it. It is not even close to the same as the things you compared it to.

Make-up, plastic surgery, hair coloring, wart or mole removal, even toenail clipping could be argued as changing the image which God created. I mean, how far do you want to go with that? The verses says not to make "marks" on the skin. That could very well be interpreted as "any mark," including temporary tattoos for kids and even when you write a little note on the back of your hand to remind you of something.

[OneLight]

Without commenting one way or another, may I ask if anyone has found scripture that tells us to get a tattoo or that it is OK to have one? I've seen the scripture that speaks against it already.

I've not seen any Scriptures that speak against heavy metal music either.

Now, we both know that tattoos have been around a lot longer then heavy metal, so this is a mute statement, my friend.

You mean "moot" statement?

The point was that absence of evidence does not constitute evidence. One cannot argue from silence.

Yup ... moot. Then there is nothing for tattoos? As for being in silence, there are a lot of things that we can not find in scripture that people would jump straight up and say it was a sin ... can you think of any?

[artsylady]

A) we dress up and go to church every sunday, sport no tattooes, men have short hair, we don't ever drink, we don't play cards, we don't dance, we stick to our own kind, and we judge others, we don't die our hair and we sing hymns.

or

B) we have peace in the midst of adversity, we love those who hate us, we don't condemn, we don't sin in our anger, we have strong convictions and joyfully carry them out, we love unconditionally and forgive easily and we are content and happy in our situations, no matter what they are?

Let me tell you, the world sees us peculiar because of A, not B, and THAT needs to change. If we are peculiar because of A, we don't look that different to the world than the Muslims or the Sihks.

Things need to change for the world to see us as the peculiar kind of people that God wants us to be. And if that means that our young folk feel the need to die their hair or get a tattoo or whatever for the perception to change from A to B and for the world to take a second look at us for the reasons that really SHOULD separate us, then so be in. In fact, in writing this, I'm feeling the need to get that cross or fish tattoo. Call it vanity and judge me if you must. I know neither is true.

I'm telling you Christians have a marketing problem that was caused by Christians themselves. Continue the marketing problem and pass it down to the next generation if you must.

There is no reason that a Christian couldn't be like A and B.

That wasn't the question at all.

The question was how does the WORLD see us. If we don't blend in and don't hang out with them, when do they ever get the chance to see the B) part of us? If we separate ourselves by outward appearance too much, they don't get to see us living victorious lives in Christ.

We're so caught up in the wrong things here. It's not about these things - these man-made rules like not dancing, or never listening to secular music (like Row, Row Row your Boat) or rules that are clearly against idolotry applied to modern day practices that are nothing comparable to what a tattoo today is.

There are just so many verses in Corinthians and Romans and the New Testmant in general that talk about spiritual issues and everything being permissable but not necessarily advisable, and about freedom, and "to to the Jews I became a Jew, to the weak, I became weak, to become all things to all men men so that by all possible means I might save some" and about those with 'weak concious' and about getting off of milk, and about us NOT knowing the mind of God and receiving the spirit to help us, (even though we have the Word) and right in the middle of telling us women should have their heads covered it says 'judge for yourselves' etc, etc, etc, and I wonder how Christians that have been Christians for a long time cannot see past all of these things to understand that the picture is much much bigger and not everything is as cut and dried as you may think from simply reading verses. The Holy Spirit can guide us into truth but not if we don't let Him.

When the verse talks about milk verses meat, what do you think it means? Is milk bad? No, it's not bad. It's still food right, but there's something BEYOND milk that is much better - it's a better perspective. It doesn't matter how LONG you've been a Christian. If your perspectives are pretty much the same as when you've first BECAME a Christian, then I'll guess you're still drinking the milk.

Regardless, this really has nothing to do with the question posed in this thread. All the person was asking is if those of us at WB think getting a tattoo is sinful? I think it is and many do not.

Well you can keep thinking that. It's your choice. I'm only trying to change opinions on this matter because I think the matter is so incredibly unimportant in the big scheme of things. It's time to move on to more important issues, imo. This subject has been raised over and over and over and over again, like many others and we can't seem to move onto meat and I find it very sad.

[artsylady]

Then there is nothing for tattoos?

Most likely not in the context of tattoos as we know them today, no.

As for being in silence, there are a lot of things that we can not find in scripture that people would jump straight up and say it was a sin ... can you think of any?

'

I'll answer that. No, I can't think of any. I believe scripture covered it all.

[Ddavid from NC]

Its amazing how specific such a discussion can become.

[artsylady]

There are just so many verses in Corinthians and Romans and the New Testmant in general that talk about spiritual issues and everything being permissable but not necessarily advisable, and about freedom, and "to to the Jews I became a Jew, to the weak, I became weak, to become all things to all men men so that by all possible means I might save some" and about those with 'weak concious' and about getting off of milk, and about us NOT knowing the mind of God and receiving the spirit to help us, (even though we have the Word) and right in the middle of telling us women should have their heads covered it says 'judge for yourselves' etc, etc, etc, and I wonder how Christians that have been Christians for a long time cannot see past all of these things to understand that the picture is much much bigger and not everything is as cut and dried as you may think from simply reading verses. The Holy Spirit can guide us into truth but not if we don't let Him.

When the verse talks about milk verses meat, what do you think it means? Is milk bad? No, it's not bad. It's still food right, but there's something BEYOND milk that is much better - it's a better perspective. It doesn't matter how LONG you've been a Christian. If your perspectives are pretty much the same as when you've first BECAME a Christian, then I'll guess you're still drinking the milk.

Well you can keep thinking that. It's your choice. I'm only trying to change opinions on this matter because I think the matter is so incredibly unimportant in the big scheme of things. It's time to move on to more important issues, imo. This subject has been raised over and over and over and over again, like many others and we can't seem to move onto meat and I find it very sad.

You seem to think that we can be a more effective witness by blending in with the world. I don't. If I see Christians, and they look and behave the same as sinners, I am not going to be influenced by them. Even as a sinner, I would have been turned off by someone with tattoos trying to witness to me

It's the looks that I'm concerned with. Do you realize Christians have a marketing problem?

If you think this topic is so unimportant, why do you spend so much time arguing about it?

Because I strongly feel that Christians need to wake up and realize the marketing problem. It's not about how we dress and what we wear. It's about our attitude.

I posted my opinion, and the result was that this unimportant topic has increased dramatically in posts trying to show that I am wrong. If it was not important, I would think people would have just shrugged what I said off, and gone on to important topics.

I just care about the lost - that's all.

[Vickilynn]

To me, it is wrong to try to trivialize any wrong doing. Just because one perceives one sin as worse than another, doesn't mean we should ignore the issues we think of as not as important. If I were thinking about getting a tattoo, I would be interested in knowing if there was anything in scripture against the practice first, so I could make an informed decision.

Shalom Butero,

Amen. I appreciate your clear stand on the issues and your willingness to post them. There are people who really want to know what the Bible says about this and what Christians believe. That's why we have message boards.

If this topic is not something someone is interested in, they can simply skip it. We should never ignore the issues. To some people, this is very important and I think they are as important as anyone else.

Thank you Butero. I may not always agree with you on every issue, but I agree that we are to find what we believe the Scriptures say and stand on those beliefs, even if others do not agree.

[Ddavid from NC]

To me, it is wrong to try to trivialize any wrong doing. Just because one perceives one sin as worse than another, doesn't mean we should ignore the issues we think of as not as important. If I were thinking about getting a tattoo, I would be interested in knowing if there was anything in scripture against the practice first, so I could make an informed decision.

Shalom Butero,

Amen. I appreciate your clear stand on the issues and your willingness to post them. There are people who really want to know what the Bible says about this and what Christians believe. That's why we have message boards.

If this topic is not something someone is interested in, they can simply skip it. We should never ignore the issues. To some people, this is very important and I think they are as important as anyone else.

Thank you Butero. I may not always agree with you on every issue, but I agree that we are to find what we believe the Scriptures say and stand on those beliefs, even if others do not agree.

Butero is a good fellow without a doubt. He is passionate. I like him, but he needs a body guard. I suggested he needed more 300lb friends like me.

[Vickilynn]

Do you wear clothes of mixed fibres? Do you eat shrimp or shellfish? Does your wife (or you if you're female) go through the monthly cleansing ritual? Do you have your steak medium rare? etc, etc, etc?

Shalom Artsy,

<sigh>

This ALWAYS gets tossed about when we discuss these issues.

Let's look again at Romans 14. If someone believes the Scriptures state getting a tattoo is a sin, we must respect that and not tear it (or them) down for those beliefs, for they are following G-d's Word as we are.

Does God look upon the outward appearance or the heart?

The Scriptures say that the outward is important as well. it's not "either / or", it's BOTH.

Please refer to Scriptures that tell women how to dress modestly etc. The outward appearance comes from the heart. G-d, looks at both, as should we.

If HE looks at the heart, who are we to look at the outward appearance?

See above. The outward comes from the heart and G-d sees both. Using that phrase that "G-d looks at the heart", does not mean that we are not to be concerned about our outward appearance. What the Scriptures say is that G-d sees our heart INTENT and MOTIVES and those are what guide our outward.