is marrying off 15yr olds and multiple wifes a big deal?

[Scarletprayers]

Its just a crying shame that on a Christian board we have to resort to posting the "laws of man" to prove something isn't right!

It is a shame. The Constitution guarantees us freedom of religion; not the freedom to break the law.

[Axxman]

I know most of you have already got the fires burning around the stakes and all...so this is probably going to fall on deaf ears...

From that same article..."Agency officials have called into question claims of adulthood among the girls since the raid and have in some cases disputed documentation provided, saying the girls look younger than 18."

So the federal gov't can now rip apart familes and take children away from mothers, based on the fact that they LOOK younger than 18!!! Is this really all you guys need to hear from a gov't agency...a best guess?

Again...the laws of consent in Texas were changed recently. A girl who is 17 years old today...was legal to consent in 2005 when she was 14. While I would agree with ALL of you that is still too young...it is a complete and total annihilation of the constitution to rip these families apart first...then try to prove something later.

What happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty?

What happened to the right to be SECURE inyour person?

What happened to due process?

What happened to illegal search and seizure?

Say what you want, and believe what you want but teen girls are getting pregnant everyday in this country and NOBODY is going to jail for it, families are not being broken apart for it, the gov't isn't rounding them up...the ONLY reason this is news, and the ONLY reason the gov't made this case different is because of religion. You'd have to be blind, or intentionally looking away, not to see that.

Are we going to start closing EVERY public school that has 2-3 pregnant teens, remove them from their homes, and investigate the whole school for a pattern of abuse? I don't think so. Furthermore...since this abuse seems to be exclusively on girls then why are boys not returned to their mothers. Better yet...what about the single mothers whose ONLY crime is a belief? Can we seriously start punishing people for their beliefs...even if they haven't practiced those beliefs yet?? What a royal mess.

I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the gov't wanting to shut these people down...but if they can't do it within the confines of the constitution then they have no business being involved in the first place.

[ayin jade]

teen girls are getting pregnant everyday in this country and NOBODY is going to jail for it

Adult men who get teen girls pregnant by statuatory rape go to jail.

Again...the laws of consent in Texas were changed recently. A girl who is 17 years old today...was legal to consent in 2005 when she was 14

And the 14 yr old girls today who are pregnant? Was that legal at the time they got pregnant?

Are we going to start closing EVERY public school that has 2-3 pregnant teens, remove them from their homes, and investigate the whole school for a pattern of abuse?

And who is getting those girls pregnant? Adult men? Or peers their age? Not good either but at least its not pedophilia.

[Guest LadyC]

*sigh*

Again...the laws of consent in Texas were changed recently. A girl who is 17 years old today...was legal to consent in 2005 when she was 14. While I would agree with ALL of you that is still too young...it is a complete and total annihilation of the constitution to rip these families apart first...then try to prove something later.

show me the statutes. i spent 36 years of my life living in texas, and raised my own daughters there. i don't ever recall any age of consent being 14.

furthermore, teen pregnancy is beside the point. the vast majority of teens who get knocked up are NOT being forced into sexual relationships with old men. that is what this group does.

you're right... you're comments are falling on deaf ears because all we hear is you defending some mythical "right" you think they have.

1) the "marriages" are not legal.

2) the young girls are not dreaming of their knight in shining armor being middle agd with a balding or snow white head of hair.

3) the cries of these young girls, and the young boys who have been ousted from their communities, is well documented, and THEIR cries are falling on YOUR deaf ears. you think it's made up, or at least you seem to.

so what the cps says girls look younger than 18? they're right in many of those cases! thing is, the flds is not very forthcoming with birth certificates to prove the ages.

[Merin]

I agree with both sides... LOL

[Guest man]

Texas officials are protecting FLDS children from abuse

By Laura Chapman

Article Last Updated: 04/26/2008 10:47:42 AM MDT

Ed Firmage's bold assertion ("Raid upon FLDS compound is an atrocity," Tribune, Opinion, April 21) that Texas officials are violating the FLDS adults' human rights demands a response.

In 2002 while I was assisting New York University's international law professor, Donna Sullivan, she and I identified the following human rights violations related to polygamy: the right to an education, the right to mobility, the right to not be molested, the right to equal protection and the right to choose a spouse.

The perpetrators of these violations are the adult male FLDS members and leadership, not Texas officials protecting children! Polygamy is illegal, a federal offense. The FLDS members are not being persecuted. Instead, they are being prosecuted, at last, for crimes against children.

Statutory rape has been the bedrock of the FLDS long before the dictatorship of Warren Jeffs. One day, I hope the government will be culpable for its role in ignoring this for decades, creating a massive multigenerational disaster complete with inbreeding, young males abandoned by parents and women so broken that they're incapable of protecting their multitudes of children.

Survivors should be offered a settlement for damages. In the meantime, certain reporters spin the realities with soft, warm words such as: families, religion, marriage of underage girls, a unique lifestyle and the ranch. In truth, these are rape of a child, a sex ring operation, organized crime, white supremacy separatists and a compound.

Fathers indoctrinate their small children that their abuse or abusing is spiritual, while mothers prepare their female children for rape in a wedding dress. The reason children can't tell officials who their parents are is that they are confused about their own identity and that of their parents.

My father was Clyde Mackert, my mother Myra Kunz, yet my birth certificate states that I'm Laura Chapman and my father is Clyde Chapman. One birth certificate claims my mother has three deceased children with Roy Mackert, yet none of her children are deceased.

I was enrolled in elementary school as Laura Mackert. I called my birth mother "Mom" and was instructed to call my father's other wives Aunt Midge, Aunt Donna, Aunt Maureen. A few years later my father, directed by FLDS leadership, changed the titles and I was to call his wives Mother Midge, Mother Donna, Mother Myra and Mother Maureen.

Warren Jeffs then made a complex situation even worse by reassigning women and children to new husbands and fathers. Many of these children simply do not know how to answer what most people would think is the simplest of questions.

---

* LAURA CHAPMAN is an advisory board member of Tapestry Against Polygamy.

link

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My highlights.

[HeyThere]

Adult men who get teen girls pregnant by statuatory rape go to jail.

Alot of them dont. You would be surprised...

[Scarletprayers]

Adult men who get teen girls pregnant by statuatory rape go to jail.

Alot of them dont. You would be surprised...

so what, since ALL of them don't.......none of the should?????

[Emily~Anne]

It's really says something that we are pointing to the lowest examples possible and saying what's wrong that for FLDS if others do that? I mean if FLDS was in prostitution, would we point to all the non FLDS prostitutes to make it somehow OK? I dont get it. Are we holding FLDS to the absolute lowest standard possible? And if we are, what does that say about FLDS? These things that are occuring in FLDS are flat out WRONG and ILLEGAL, wether one is FLDS or not.

[HisMindinme]

Texas officials are protecting FLDS children from abuse

By Laura Chapman

Article Last Updated: 04/26/2008 10:47:42 AM MDT

Laura is telling the plain bold truth and reality of the matter. Will the TX officials, social workers, police, child-psychologists and others get some things wrong along the way? YOU BET! However, when held up in relative comparison to the abuses of this religionized "sex ring" for "older men", the sins of the state are much less severe than the sins of the adult men AND women in that compound (FLDS).

As for the matter of "allowing" the FLDS to go on about its business for these many decades, THAT is a sin of the state that WE THE PEOPLE need to address. We the people write and vote for the laws of this land. We the people have turned our backs on those kids and women! We the people shoulder some of the sin of the matter, so let's be somewhat circumspect in our assessment of passing out blame.

The compound and others like it, ought not be allowed to exist much less continue for DECADES of abuse! Men in that place have been facilitated by our (We the people) INACTION! We bear some of the blame for turning the other way and just allowing it to go on, when we know FULL WELL what what goes on inside those places.

The TX state police, Rangers and other officials were spot on for raiding the place, guns drawn, SWAT teams and all! To hell with people claiming the "rights" of these men to continue and perpetuate and thumb their noses at common decency and TRUE and REAL love of family, wives and children -- heck -- even love of their own selves (in a rightful, well-being way).

The matter is heartbreaking and sick. I, for one, am thankful the compound was raided, children removed and something is being done. I hope other polygamist compounds and setups will be likewise "handled" and erradicated.