The Meaning of a Flag Draped Coffin

[Guest]

[irishcowboy]

Origin of the 21 Gun Salute - plus the explanations for how it's done and why.

FYI - firing 7 guns 3 times = 21 shots. No, technically it is not 21 guns, but the principle is the same.

Is there anything to back up those claims? Sources?

Have you ever been in the Military?????

Navy history says the same thing.

the only thing is, not every one that is killed in battle receives a 21 gun (or three volley ) salute, it will range from 5 guns to 21 in increments of 2 (depending on the rank and or position the person held)

you can do a search and find all sorts of information about it...

mike

[glorywatch]

I enjoyed reading the information that those of you shared about the why's of some of the traditions we have.

Most everyone says 21 gun salute and we know what it means without being so technical. I can understand being technical if you are doing a report or you are in the military or doing your job, which requires exact terminology, but in the course of conversation, I am not sure that it is that important.

I have never seen a scientist freak out because we say the sun is setting, when the sun is not moving, its the earth rolling over. Just some food for thought.

[LadyRaven]

I enjoyed reading the information that those of you shared about the why's of some of the traditions we have.

Most everyone says 21 gun salute and we know what it means without being so technical. I can understand being technical if you are doing a report or you are in the military or doing your job, which requires exact terminology, but in the course of conversation, I am not sure that it is that important.

I have never seen a scientist freak out because we say the sun is setting, when the sun is not moving, its the earth rolling over. Just some food for thought.

Well, I dont think it's a matter of picking nits, there is, quite literally a 21 gun salute across the water and so there is a linguistic disconnect. I will never forget when I went over there and the woman who worked in my office offered me a 'rubber' when I made a mistake on a form I was filling out. Rubbers, in England, are erasers. I didn't know this and had no idea how a condom was going to help me finish my paperwork.

[glorywatch]

LadyRaven, point taken and what a funny story about the "rubber".

[amor]

Origin of the 21 Gun Salute - plus the explanations for how it's done and why.

FYI - firing 7 guns 3 times = 21 shots. No, technically it is not 21 guns, but the principle is the same.

Is there anything to back up those claims? Sources?

Have you ever been in the Military?????

Navy history says the same thing.

the only thing is, not every one that is killed in battle receives a 21 gun (or three volley ) salute, it will range from 5 guns to 21 in increments of 2 (depending on the rank and or position the person held)

you can do a search and find all sorts of information about it...

mike

So even in death , it seems that, the military sees a dead general as being more important than the private soldiers he sent into battle.

Is there anything really Christian about all this flag veneration gun firing and related activities. It seems more in keeping with Pagan military traditions we have inherited from Greece and the Roman Empire. This is certainly true of many military and indeed other civic memorials. I'm currently ten minutes walk from the London cenotaph a clearly Pagan memorial to the "unknown soldier", Washington DC from my memory is dominated by similar monuments be they military or dedicated to former Presidents reflecting the ways that the Romans so enthusiastically deified their Emperors.

[Matthitjah]

Origin of the 21 Gun Salute - plus the explanations for how it's done and why.

FYI - firing 7 guns 3 times = 21 shots. No, technically it is not 21 guns, but the principle is the same.

Is there anything to back up those claims? Sources?

Have you ever been in the Military?????

Navy history says the same thing.

the only thing is, not every one that is killed in battle receives a 21 gun (or three volley ) salute, it will range from 5 guns to 21 in increments of 2 (depending on the rank and or position the person held)

you can do a search and find all sorts of information about it...

mike

So even in death , it seems that, the military sees a dead general as being more important than the private soldiers he sent into battle.

Is there anything really Christian about all this flag veneration gun firing and related activities. It seems more in keeping with Pagan military traditions we have inherited from Greece and the Roman Empire. This is certainly true of many military and indeed other civic memorials. I'm currently ten minutes walk from the London cenotaph a clearly Pagan memorial to the "unknown soldier", Washington DC from my memory is dominated by similar monuments be they military or dedicated to former Presidents reflecting the ways that the Romans so enthusiastically deified their Emperors.

Ex

[nebula]

So even in death , it seems that, the military sees a dead general as being more important than the private soldiers he sent into battle.

I don't know of anything or anywhere in which the more influential are not given greater honor than the "average" folk. Even in Communist countries, the leaders and great achievers are given more honor than the blended mainstream.....

Is there anything really Christian about all this flag veneration gun firing and related activities. It seems more in keeping with Pagan military traditions we have inherited from Greece and the Roman Empire. This is certainly true of many military and indeed other civic memorials. I'm currently ten minutes walk from the London cenotaph a clearly Pagan memorial to the "unknown soldier", Washington DC from my memory is dominated by similar monuments be they military or dedicated to former Presidents reflecting the ways that the Romans so enthusiastically deified their Emperors.

The only "Biblical" culture, amor, is the culture of the Hebrews.

And even they honored their military victories and heroes.

[Guest]

Honor's Gate

Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Luke 13:23-30

For Children With Special Names

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:17

And Their Father's Face Before Them

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:3-4

Those Called The sons Of God

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:

1 John 3:1(a)

Those Known By His Name

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

My Redeemer

Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psalms 19:14

My God

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 20:26-28

Jesus The Christ

[irishcowboy]

Origin of the 21 Gun Salute - plus the explanations for how it's done and why.

FYI - firing 7 guns 3 times = 21 shots. No, technically it is not 21 guns, but the principle is the same.

Is there anything to back up those claims? Sources?

Have you ever been in the Military?????

Navy history says the same thing.

the only thing is, not every one that is killed in battle receives a 21 gun (or three volley ) salute, it will range from 5 guns to 21 in increments of 2 (depending on the rank and or position the person held)

you can do a search and find all sorts of information about it...

mike

So even in death , it seems that, the military sees a dead general as being more important than the private soldiers he sent into battle.

Is there anything really Christian about all this flag veneration gun firing and related activities. It seems more in keeping with Pagan military traditions we have inherited from Greece and the Roman Empire. This is certainly true of many military and indeed other civic memorials. I'm currently ten minutes walk from the London cenotaph a clearly Pagan memorial to the "unknown soldier", Washington DC from my memory is dominated by similar monuments be they military or dedicated to former Presidents reflecting the ways that the Romans so enthusiastically deified their Emperors.

actually, YES! they do see a General as having more honor then a private.... you will also find that if a General passes away while on duty, the flag will be flown at half mast for a specified time, and if a private passes while on duty, the flag is also flown at half mast but for a much shorter time.

a person would fly the flag at half mast for 30 days from the death of the President or a former President and fly it at half mast for 10 days from the day of death for: Vice President; Chief Justice of the US or a retired Chief Justice of the US; Speaker of the House of Representatives but then would only fly it at half mast only on the day of death until interment for: Associate Justice of the Supreme Court; Secretary of an executive or military department; Former Vice President; Governor of a State, territory, or possession and again only at half mast only on the day of death and the following day for: Member of Congress

the following site has a good amount of information and actually would be worth the read.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

"Section 7m of the Flag Code authorizes a governor to half-staff the US flag upon the death of a present or former official of the government of the state, or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from that state who dies while serving on active duty.

The President, by comparison, is authorized to half-staff the US flag by proclamation upon the death of principal figures of the US Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as well as in the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries.

We recommend flying the state flag at half-staff.

A recent change allows governors to order the flag to half-staff to honor fallen soldiers from their state (see Public Law 110-41). The change was the result of governor proclamations, like this one from Governor Granholm of Michigan.

Some object to this extension of a governor's authority because they feel half-staffing the flag for every fallen soldier can be seen as anti-war. Some feel that overuse cheapens the symbolic power of half-staffing the flag, traditionally reserved for political leaders."

by the way:

There is no reference to meaning of the folds in the Flag Code.