Biblical tongues

[ParanoidAndroid]

Just as a general comment, I don't like the circular reasoning that is being used here. Everyone can speak in tongues. If they don't, they haven't submitted themselves to God, thus I have been proven right because you didn't really submit to God, because everyone can speak in tongues. If they don't, they haven't submitted themselves to God, thus I have been proven right because you didn't really submit to God because everyone can speak in tongues. If they don't, they haven't....... *repeat ad infinitum*

With this view it leaves absolutely zero room for the possibility that either

1 - not everyone can speak in tongues, or

2 - The tongues you have experienced are not of the biblical variety

Whatever answer anyone gives you are absolutely right and they are absolutely wrong and there is no possibility of any other answer. From fellow Christians, this kind of belief is a little uncomfortable for me. It's like people are saying, "Believing in Jesus' sacrifice is enough for salvation, but if you want to be a REAL CHRISTIAN, you have to fully experience the gifts of the spirit"......

Just seems to me that it sets up a superiority view over everyone else. But this is just my observation.

~ PA

[Floatingaxe]

You have said that not speaking in tongues is a failing of the church, I dont speak in tongues so the implication is that I am part of that failure.

It is a failure of the Church to seek after the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We all suffer for it.

[truthbringer]

There simply is no Scriptural support for such a practice or belief.

That's just not true. Scripture is plain about the fact that we as believers are known for just such an expression of the Holy Spirit in us.

Mark 16:17

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Let me clarify: There is no Scriptural support for the practice or belief of speaking in the tongues of angels. Especially not in the manner by which many of the charismatic groups do it today. "New tongues" in that verse could simply mean "A tongue that they do not speak."

There is scripture that says we speak in tongues og Angels. 1 Cor 13: 1.

The original Greek says, "Anyone and Everyone who speals in tongues of men and ANGELS.

[truthbringer]

one thing that has helped me is studying gods word and not listening to what man has to say tongues is a gift that god gives us though when it comes to the other gifts tongues is the very last gift on the list

the term tongues when used in refrence to speaking just simply means language the Greek word is glossa and means tongues language and the verb laleo means to speak producing the word glossolalia

if you go to strongs and look at the definition you will come across these refrences

Thayer Definition glossa

1 the tongue a member of the body an origon of speech

2 a tongue

3 the language or dialect used by particular people distinct from that of other nations

Mark 16 - 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe in my name shall they cast out devils they shal speak with new tongues

and when i was looking into this for my self i noticed this

this statement made by Jesus to his apostles on the gift of speaking in tongues is in the context of the Greatest commission to preach the gospel to the whole world to every creature Jesus disciples were to receive the power of the gift of the holy spirit and they were to proclaim the good news of what jesus had achieved for all mankind first in Israel and then to all the nations tongues foreign languages and people i also noticed as i looked into this for my self that these signs were to confirm the gospel message

thou as i did my own re search into this i also noticed that Jesus never had this gift he had all the other gifts though he never had the gift when it comes to speaking in tongues

pual also explains to the corinthians that the gifts of the spirit are for the advancment of gods kingdom on earth and not for personal edification

tongues are for those that do not believe this is how i have been taught

i also noticed that paul did not discourage any one from speaking in tongues

1 corinthians 14

39 So my brothers earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues

why would paul lay down the law then say this in 1 corinthians 14 and make it clear in verse 39 by saying my brothers earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues

paul would have made it clear and it would be written in plain ink for us all to see to the point were our pastors would be teaching from the pulpit and saying that we are not to seek this gift

if god tends to want us to have this gift and this gift is given to us will you reject it all due to the law ? and say no thank you lord or wil you just accept this with out questioning god ?

what paul is saying is that tongues are a sign to unbelievers who are moved when they hear the gospel spoken in their tongue by men who had never learned or understood it this is exactly what happend at penticost they were all amazed when they heard these unlearned Galilieans speaking in there own native tongue

hear is a site that helped me http://www.speaking-in-tongues.net

you will find this site very use full i did not just dive into this my self when i came out jail in 1988 and found my self in a unitting church that was very charasmatic penticostal i sat at the back and i observed what was going on i am also my own man i do my own re search i do not dive in head first or do i follow suit because everyone else is saying if you dont you cant say you are a true christian

the bible gives us basic guide lines how to live out this life and all we have is gods living word

hope this helps

God bles from damo

In your research, you have overlooked the other seven manifestations of tongues.

For instance, how can anyone understand when we speak in tongues that "NO MAN UNDERSTANDS BUT GOD". 1 Cor 14: 2.

How does speaking to unbelievers in tongues build us up. 1Cor 14:4.

If we are only speaking in [tongues] to preach to unbelievers, then why would there need to be an interpreter. 1Cor 12: 10.

[truthbringer]

If one doesn't do it, then fine, but it is a bona fide ability that the Holy Spirit gives any Christian just for the asking... and sometimes apart from the asking! Hallelujah!

Just curious, but if someone were to ask and nothing happened then I guess the response would be "you didn't pray hard enough" or "you didn't truly submit yourself to God's spirit". There is more to this than simply asking God for it. Otherwise many Christians outside Charismatic Churches would be doing it.

Yes there is more to it then Asking, you have to believe and receive. To many people miss it by waiting for God to give it them, The tuth is that He already has, In Acts 1: 4-5 Jesus promised the Holy Ghost, But in Acts 2: the promise was given, Then in acts 2: 38--39 Peter said He is a gift, Hes no more a promise He is a gift, Gifts have to be received by faith.

If He was still a promise then the responsibility would be on God to give the Holy Ghost.

But because He is a gift, the responibility is upon us to receive Him.

[Floatingaxe]

If one doesn't do it, then fine, but it is a bona fide ability that the Holy Spirit gives any Christian just for the asking... and sometimes apart from the asking! Hallelujah!

Just curious, but if someone were to ask and nothing happened then I guess the response would be "you didn't pray hard enough" or "you didn't truly submit yourself to God's spirit". There is more to this than simply asking God for it. Otherwise many Christians outside Charismatic Churches would be doing it.

Yes there is more to it then Asking, you have to believe and receive. To many people miss it by waiting for God to give it them, The tuth is that He already has, In Acts 1: 4-5 Jesus promised the Holy Ghost, But in Acts 2: the promise was given, Then in acts 2: 38--39 Peter said He is a gift, Hes no more a promise He is a gift, Gifts have to be received by faith.

If He was still a promise then the responsibility would be on God to give the Holy Ghost.

But because He is a gift, the responibility is upon us to receive Him.

[ParanoidAndroid]

And now I will show you the most excellent way. 1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

As far as I'm aware, I haven't got the gift of prophecy - I wasn't aware ALL christians were supposed to have it. I have Faith which I believe is strong, but I've never moved mountains. Neither have I given all I own to the poor nor surrendered my body to flames. And I daresay most Christians would agree.

Yet somehow verse 1 applies to all Christians.

And as a matter of course, no one has yet actually given a biblical definition for the "tongues of angels" from verse 1. All we have is our own experiences and preconceived ideas to go on. Without that, we have nothing to say what the "tongues of angels" even is.

All the best,

[Floatingaxe]

If one doesn't do it, then fine, but it is a bona fide ability that the Holy Spirit gives any Christian just for the asking... and sometimes apart from the asking! Hallelujah!

Just curious, but if someone were to ask and nothing happened then I guess the response would be "you didn't pray hard enough" or "you didn't truly submit yourself to God's spirit". There is more to this than simply asking God for it. Otherwise many Christians outside Charismatic Churches would be doing it.

Yes there is more to it then Asking, you have to believe and receive. To many people miss it by waiting for God to give it them, The tuth is that He already has, In Acts 1: 4-5 Jesus promised the Holy Ghost, But in Acts 2: the promise was given, Then in acts 2: 38--39 Peter said He is a gift, Hes no more a promise He is a gift, Gifts have to be received by faith.

If He was still a promise then the responsibility would be on God to give the Holy Ghost.

But because He is a gift, the responibility is upon us to receive Him.

here we go again....

if you dont speak in tongues, you dont have the Holy Spirit. It always comes back to this.

here is a news flash for you....

I have the gift of the Holy Spirit and I do not speak in tongues.

Once again, no one is telling you anything of the kind!

[mead]

When the apostles were first filled with the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts, they began to speak in tongues. There was a crowd of people from many nations gathered nearby and they were amazed because they could understand what the apostles were saying as they were speaking their language. However, what did those who did not understand them? They mocked them and proclaimed that the apostles were drunk.

We need to be careful about placing judgment on someone because we do not understand what they are doing or why they are doing it.

Acts 2:4-13

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians

[Botz]

And now I will show you the most excellent way. 1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

As far as I'm aware, I haven't got the gift of prophecy - I wasn't aware ALL christians were supposed to have it. I have Faith which I believe is strong, but I've never moved mountains. Neither have I given all I own to the poor nor surrendered my body to flames. And I daresay most Christians would agree.

Yet somehow verse 1 applies to all Christians.

And as a matter of course, no one has yet actually given a biblical definition for the "tongues of angels" from verse 1. All we have is our own experiences and preconceived ideas to go on. Without that, we have nothing to say what the "tongues of angels" even is.

All the best,

From my understanding, many Believers have claimed to speak at times in a tongue that is not of this world, and is thought to be angelic language.

If one references the places in Scripture where angels interact with 'mankind', you will notice that they are quite easily understood (mind you they are probably multi-lingual).

Looking at the various translations of 1Cor 13:1 the plain meaning does not appear hidden, but on the surface it seems that it has been utilised to shore up a traditional charasmatic assumption, namely that unrecognisable sentences that proceed from the mouth when speaking in tongues must be of angelic origin.

There does not seem to be a distinction between the languages 'of men and of angels', the writer has not said, 'of men OR of angels'.... and as far as I am aware there are no other Scriptures to consolidate the supposition.

What one does find, especially in Johns vision in Revelation, is that there is a tonal value or quality to the sounds of the angelic voices that speak to him...

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said,