Biblical tongues

[Guest celebratejesus]

again, you are incorrect, in that, the only way to "know" the bible is if taught by the Holy Spirit. True, man can interpret it any way they like, but it will not be correct, not in full:) Only Spirit can understand Spirit. And again, intellect needs to be put aside, but, that is a choice each person has to make:)

again, thank you anyway.

You are incorrect, not I. Again, I will stick with the Holy Spirit, and that includes when He speaks to christians God puts in my life to be accountable to(trust)I am sorry you are not one of them. Thank you anyway.

denise

I did not speak to you someone trying to hold you accountable. I was simply showing that Peter was not talking about "interpretation" of the Bible in the sense of studying the Bible to learn what it means. I was simply showing you that Peter was addressing how that the Bible was not the product of the mind, will or the impluse of any of the prophets, but that they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Peter was refuting the notion that Christianity was a religion based on silly fables.

We are all called to study the Bible and study requires interpretation and to deny that is to deny the obvious. Even YOU interpret the Bible as is evidenced in your many posts even while you deny that the Bible is to be interpreted. So on that point you are internally inconsistent with your own professed beliefs. Instead of just brushing my comments aside as if they are beneath you to consider, why don't you show me why I am incorrect?

[Guest shiloh357]

again, you are incorrect, in that, the only way to "know" the bible is if taught by the Holy Spirit. True, man can interpret it any way they like, but it will not be correct, not in full:) Only Spirit can understand Spirit. And again, intellect needs to be put aside, but, that is a choice each person has to make:)

again, thank you anyway.

This is not true. The Holy Spirit does not circumvent our minds. God gave us our minds. We are to love him with all of our heart, of our mind and all of our strength.

Why do you think you have a Bible to read in English? Because God raised up men of high intelligence who learned the languages, who have learned how to translate.

God is not at enmity with our intellect. He works through it to spread His Word and this can be proven by the many learned intellectuals who have impacted the world for Christ. God has used men like Sir Isaac Newton who was the father of modern science and other great Christian thinkers and intellectuals who have given us much in the area biblical apologetics and doctrine with which we can defend the truth of Scripture.

The mind is a tool of the Holy Spirit, and that is why we are told to renew our minds in the Bible. We are told to "study to show ourselves approved. Studying is an excersize of the mind. We are not told ANYWHERE in the Bible that we are to cast out intellect aside. Our intellect is a gift from God and is not to be dispised.

Paul was a man of great learning and he was the one God used to write 2/3 of the New Testament and was the greatest missionary in the world reaching more people than even some of our modern evangelists. Paul used his mind to reason in the synagogues and in Greece.

I don't know where you got your idea that we are to cast our intellect aside. I can say this much you did NOT get it from the Bible or the Holy Spirit.

[Guest celebratejesus]

Wrong again,

Romans 12:2

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Our minds(intellects are to become one with God's). Our own minds are not of the Spirit until we are transformed. Trust me on this, God does not "need" our human minds. But yes, He can use them if they are renewed when the Holy Spirit indwells us.

Have a good evening:)

PS Oh the foolishness of man, that thinks he is, or, will come to be, the same as God. dle

again, you are incorrect, in that, the only way to "know" the bible is if taught by the Holy Spirit. True, man can interpret it any way they like, but it will not be correct, not in full:) Only Spirit can understand Spirit. And again, intellect needs to be put aside, but, that is a choice each person has to make:)

again, thank you anyway.

This is not true. The Holy Spirit does not circumvent our minds. God gave us our minds. We are to love him with all of our heart, of our mind and all of our strength.

Why do you think you have a Bible to read in English? Because God raised up men of high intelligence who learned the languages, who have learned how to translate.

God is not at enmity with our intellect. He works through it to spread His Word and this can be proven by the many learned intellectuals who have impacted the world for Christ. God has used men like Sir Isaac Newton who was the father of modern science and other great Christian thinkers and intellectuals who have given us much in the area biblical apologetics and doctrine with which we can defend the truth of Scripture.

The mind is a tool of the Holy Spirit, and that is why we are told to renew our minds in the Bible. We are told to "study to show ourselves approved. Studying is an excersize of the mind. We are not told ANYWHERE in the Bible that we are to cast out intellect aside. Our intellect is a gift from God and is not to be dispised.

Paul was a man of great learning and he was the one God used to write 2/3 of the New Testament and was the greatest missionary in the world reaching more people than even some of our modern evangelists. Paul used his mind to reason in the synagogues and in Greece.

I don't know where you got your idea that we are to cast our intellect aside. I can say this much you did NOT get it from the Bible or the Holy Spirit.

Edited August 7, 2008 by celebratejesus

[Guest shiloh357]

Wrong again,

Romans 12:2

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Our minds(intellects are to become one with God's). Our own minds are not of the Spirit until we are transformed.

Yes, that is true, but that doesn't really refute my point. You said that we are to cast aside our intellect. My point was that we are NOT told to do that in the Bible and you cannot produce any Scripture to support your assertion. I was the one who originally brought up the renewing of the mind. The Bible nowhere casts a disparaging view on the mind. People who simply misunderstand the relationship of the mind and spirit seem bent on treating the mind as uselss instrument. Again, you have not really addressed the points I raised.

Again, you are hardpressed to address the issue of the men of high intellect that God has used in the past.

Trust me on this, God does not "need" our human minds. But yes, He can use them if they are renewed when the Holy Spirit indwells us.

Actually, the mind is renewed when we apply it to the Bible. The mind is to be tool of the Holy Spirit and for that reason, we too keep our mind renewed in the Word of God. The mind, in the hands of the Holy Spirit is a powerful tool in the Kingdom of God to spread the gospel.

PS Oh the foolishness of man, that thinks he is, or, will come to be, the same as God.

???? Who said anything about becoming the same as God??? I want to be conformed into the image of Christ, but I nowhere said that I want to become the same as God. I think you are reading values and motives into my posts that I never communicated.

[damo1]

for me and speaking for my self

this is a tuff subject and not many like to discuss this topic due to what we are seeing know in the way members respond when questioned

i avoided this gift the reason why i avoided this gift is due to being told as a young christian if you dont speak in tongues you cant say you are a true christian

this got me mad to the point were i decided it was time to do some re search as i shared to what hapend when i was asked to tag along it freaked me out and when i told my pastor i felt out of place al he could say is dont reject what god wants to pass on to you i said i did not pray for this or was i asking god to give me this gift

in the farming comunity i use to live in which was called Armidale we had this group the people were not connected to a certain denomination but their doctrines were way out there for example unless you have visitations by angels you cant call your self a true christian also to what we are discussing and what i have shared they use this one a lot when they are out on out reach unless you speak in tongues you cant call your self a true christian

i am a history buff i like looking at the history of the towns i find my self living in

when i began to read 1 corinthians 14 i decided i would also like to find out who the people were what sort of community cornith was and what was really going on to where paul would have to rebuke the members and say speaking in tongues is to only be used to reach out to the unbelievers

1 corinthians 14

1 pursue love and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy

2 for one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God for no one understands him but he utters mysteries in the spirit

3 on the other hand the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragment and consolation

to understand what paul was saying to the corinthians you need to go over 1 corinthians 14 this was pauls church he planted this church and when chloe said hay dude we have problems arising it would have cut paul to the core

paul said they were like carnal babes who had to be feed on milk

i try not to let the flesh come out i am though human and the flesh tends to come out in topics like this to were no one learns but what we have is what paul had to sort out when it comes to the corinthians and what was going on in the congregation

no use playing chess with the scriputre passages you are so use to with out taking a deeper look to why paul would say what he said

i am like some of the members hear i have had bad experiances concerning this gift to were i to have seen it to were it was abused to were certain members were faking it it use to get up my nose when i would hear christians and pastors saying you are not a true christian unless you speak in tongues i would say wel i speak two languages Australian and yugoslavian but please explaine why i am not a true christian if i dont tend to want this gift and why would you say i am not a true christian because i decided not to seek this gift

i also said i do speak in tongues but it took time for this to happen i am a hard head i came before the lord and said if this is off you please open my eyes to the truth of what i am reading concerning what happend in the upper room when the desciples were in one accord and praying and glorifying god

this is all i will say concerning this topic as all i am seeing hear is the flesh talking and i will not get involved were the flesh is doing all the talking

God bless from damo

[nebula]

Oh really:) "because it is more often then not those who do not have and practice this gift who put the greatest binders on how it is to be used or not". People who follow the Word of God, not a man-made "doctrine" will put binders on false-teaching, always:) You assume which, lets just say, you assumed wrong, which is usually the case when assuming:) Never seen anyone(met anyone)that comes against false-doctrine pertaining to tongues, when indeed, they do speak in tongues:)? It is not anything to brag about(tongues)and it is personal between God and I, and an interpreter).

Discerning between spirits is a good one too:

Fausset's Bible Dictionary

Discerning of Spirits

1 Corinthians 12:10. Discerning between the operation of God's Spirit and that of the evil spirit, or unaided human spirit claiming to utter the dictates of God's Spirit. Acts 5:1-11; Acts 8:28; 1 Corinthians 14:23,37: "if any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." It is this which assures us of the inspiration of the New Testament The books were accepted as inspired, by churches having men possessing" the discerning of spirits" (1 John 4:1; 1 Timothy 4:1).

Living for Him, denise

I don't regard the gift of tongues as something to be hidden. No, I don't use my gift for show - that is different, and I would never support tongues being used for show.

The Bible is clear that tongues are for prayer (speaking to God, 1 Cor. 14:2), edifying one's own spirit (vs. 4), and as a sign for unbelievers (vs. 22) such as occurred when Holy Spirit was first poured out on the believers on Pentecost.

I do not regard the gift of tongues as something to be treated with contempt just because there are those who abuse it. Nor should it be despised.

Jamess 1:17 - Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Is not the gift of tongues "good and perfect"?

I love my gift of tongues! I thank Father for my gift, and I show my appreciation to Him by using it. It is indeed a beautiful gift.

[Floatingaxe]

Amen, nebula! After all, Paul devoted much time to admonishing against the misuse of the gift, as he was witness to its abuse! People were being all showy about it and that is what we are to guard against. We are called to be wise, are we not?

Proverbs 4:7

Wisdom is the principal thing;

Therefore get wisdom.

And in all your getting, get understanding.

[irishcowboy]

The artical states that tongues have to be of another worldly language.

Now let's review the true gift of tongues that we may lay it alongside what we are seeing today:

1. First, the true gift of tongues is a normal language, spoken somewhere on earth, but not learned by the linguistic processes by which we ordinarily learn languages; yet it is clearly understandable by anyone who would happen to speak that language.

Here is what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:1

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

If Paul speaks of tongues of angels, then your link is not in accordance with scripture. Correct me if I am incorrect, but there is nowhere on earth that speaks in an angelic language.

i also noticed things as this in that article.... some of the scripture was taken out of context as well...

I, for one, am very skeptical about messages in tongues and the interpretation there of, however, I do know for a fact that it is true, some even sounded like total gibberish, with no structure and other times it sounded very structured. I have received words, and then listened as another spoke the same words that I had received, after a message in tongues was given.

the fellowships I attend, judge the messages, each and every section of it, to ensure that it aligns with the Word of God, if it does not, even one little piece, it (the message) is discarded..... it all has to be in alignment with the Word of God.

There were other things that the articles did not sit right with me, we could sit and pick it apart piece by piece, but I will not be worrying about this article again...

mik

[jwj]

do you have to speak in tongues to make it to heaven?

[Grace1479]

do you have to speak in tongues to make it to heaven?

No you don't HAVE to. The Holy Spirit grants gifts to people as seen fitted.

Like I said in my previous post, I would love the gift of tongues, but it's up to the Holy Spirit to give it to me if He so wishes. Your salvation does not depend on gifts, it depends on the Blood of Christ. The only way you can get to heaven is through Jesus, to accept Him as your personal Saviour and accept that He died for your sins. That is the only way you can get to heaven.