I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

[mrs]

God respects our decisions. We can forsake Him anytime we choose.

God respects our decisions???? Chapter and verse plz.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I think those verses are rather clear that God tells us, this is how it is. Period.

[Floatingaxe]

Yes he is saying that,mainly because it doesn't fit his doctrine his excuse is that the newer translation have left it out, which is of course another ploy of satan.

This is actually just the opposite of the truth. The oldest manuscripts don’t have it, it was added later.

Seems it is a ploy of Satan to get people to try and find salvation from works instead of grace.

The KJV is a product of the Church of England, which tends to rely a lot on works.

I trust God to have protected His Word from molestation. He is up to the job. It is doubt in the veracity of His truth that causes people to be distracted by these passages. They are in the canon because GOD IS THE AUTHOR.

[Larry 2]

Ezekeil33

I find it odd every time anyone says we need to be led by the Spirit and not the flesh, surrendering ourselves to God and live out His word through our lives you claim we are doomed, maybe you are doomed but i am not i do surrender my life to Christ and His word. I have no problem denying the flesh and walking in the spirit, it is not as impossible as you make it seem.

Does following all of the law of God enter into your walk after the Spirit or just the parts you want to follow?

[Floatingaxe]

I trust God to have protected His Word from molestation. He is up to the job. It is doubt in the veracity of His truth that causes people to be distracted by these passages. They are in the canon because GOD IS THE AUTHOR.

I trust God to have protected His Word from molestation

me too. The addition of those words or leaving them out does not change a thing, the meaning of the passage stays the same.

I made my comment as a joke towards EZ33 who really believes that the devil took those words out of the NIV, and I guess out of the older manuscripts as well.

But since you brought this up, do you feel that there is one "right" english version of the Bible? and if so, which one and why?

Why do you think there are questionable passages like this?

1. No.

2. Not questionable to me, but those who are zealous purists like to argue. Satan whispers in the ear, "Did God really mean that?"

[Ovedya]

Quoting Ovedya - When we are joined to the Lord we become a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15), sons of God according to the divine nature (Gal. 4:16), and joint heirs with Christ according to the promise of Abraham (Rom. 8:17; Gal. 4:7; Titus 3:7; Gal. 3:29; 4:28; Eph. 3:6; Heb. 11:9).

Question - Where in the verses you quoted above does it say because we are a new creation that we are joint heirs with Christ. To me there is a special qualification to becoming a joint heir with Christ that you seem to have omitted.

We are joint heirs with Christ by virtue of our sonship. We are sons of God by virtue of our sharing the same life in the Spirit. As sons of God we are also members of the new creation. There is no special qualification for our inheritance, only that we are sons of God.

[Larry 2]

Quoting Ovedya - When we are joined to the Lord we become a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15), sons of God according to the divine nature (Gal. 4:16), and joint heirs with Christ according to the promise of Abraham (Rom. 8:17; Gal. 4:7; Titus 3:7; Gal. 3:29; 4:28; Eph. 3:6; Heb. 11:9).

Question - Where in the verses you quoted above does it say because we are a new creation that we are joint heirs with Christ. To me there is a special qualification to becoming a joint heir with Christ that you seem to have omitted.

We are joint heirs with Christ by virtue of our sonship. We are sons of God by virtue of our sharing the same life in the Spirit. As sons of God we are also members of the new creation. There is no special qualification for our inheritance, only that we are sons of God.

Thanks for replying

I will paste Romans 8:17, "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God (All children are heirs of God), and joint-heirs (This does not say all children of God are joint heirs - There is a condition) with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him (There is going to be a vast difference in reigning with Christ as a joint heir and being a servant that the great multitude in Rev. 7 will be): if we deny him, he also will deny us. What will He deny us? If we do not allow Him to lead us even unto suffering (This can also be enduring with Him), He will deny us the right to reign with Him as a joint heir.

[Blien]

Gator l think you miss read that one lol... she didn't even say that God turned away from them!

[kross]

I will lay the foundation with these scriptures.

1st Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

2nd Peter 3:9b Not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If it is God's will that all be saved then why are we not all saved? Because God respects our decisions, to not serve Him if we choose not to.

(quote)

Well, these two scriptures you have mentioned are vastly mis-understood. While the scripture in 1st Tim is harder to understand, the scripture in 1Peter is a simple case of reading it in context.

This part of the scripture is predicated on the first part, particularly the "US" in the first half. The english language requires that it be understood to say, "not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should come to repentance".

The us being those who have recieved like faith. The elect, chosen, the called. If you take the time to dig in deeper to this chapter and this teaching, Peter is saying that JESUS has not returned to the Earth yet because HE is waiting until all of US (those whoose names are in the lambs book of life) are saved. When that happens, HE will come.

What the scripture does not say is that GOD wills that every person be saved. If that were so, HE would treat us all like HE treated Saul/Paul. GOD can save anybody HE wants and do whatever HE wants with HIS creation.

Not a sparrow falls out of the sky outside the FATHERS will, how much more important than the life of a sparrow is the salvation of HIS children?

If you feel you can un-choose GOD it could be because you feel you chose HIM in the first place. I did not choose HIM, HE chose me. I know that HE did not save me at the worst part of my life only to reject me after HE has cleaned me up this much.

[mrs]

God respects our decisions. We can forsake Him anytime we choose.

God respects our decisions???? Chapter and verse plz.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I think those verses are rather clear that God tells us, this is how it is. Period.

Floating??

[mrs]

#1 God does want ALL to be saved and both of these verse point that out.

#2 Your take on this verse is a false teaching called ''the fullness of the Gentiles'' which teaches as soon as a certain # of Gentiles get saved that God has preordained then Jesus will return. This is a false teaching and has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

Kross did a great job explaining what it actually means IN context.

I agree with you completely, kross.

Ezek your interpretation of kross's belief is totally incorrect. What he was expounding on is the biblical teaching of election.

If you would carefully study the following passage you would see how very clear Jesus is in his teaching on election:

Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.