Ray Boltz

[Guest man]

When self righteous, white washed tombs full of dead mans bones point their bony, putrid, bloodstained fingers at someone else to judge and condemn them because they would dare to come forward and proclaim that they have been struggling with sin for years.

Is the finger you're pointing at us spotless?

Homosexuality is a sin. There's no getting around that.

Why did the Lord destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?

Your own words tell me you believe it's wrong.

And isnt it unfortunate that a man has to go to that kind of church to find love and compassion in his struggles.

Ray Boltz has leaad more people to the LORD, has girded up the foundations of more Christians, has served the cause fo JESUS in such a way that when it comes time to stand in front of JESUS on the day of judgement that he will be so close to the throne that most of us will not even be able to see that far.

Are you sure about that"

Matthew 7

21

[mrs]

A Christian can struggle with homosexuality just as they can struggle with pornography, or even commit adultery. The point is a Christian knows it is wrong and is led to repent of it.

This "church" teaches that homosexuality is right, loving, and normal. They put articles on their site in which people have the nerve to say that David and Jonathon were gay, Lydia was lesbian, the man with a sick servant was gay, and even Jesus was gay! That last is WAY over the top.

This church is no more Christian than my unsaved neighbor,and they, with their wishy-washy view of the Bible's authority, are teaching against it's clear Word.

And I agree that it is a shame. But I have seen how regular churches treat sin and sinner and i can not blame him for trying to find someone who will not stand in condemnation of hi for his weakness.

GOD knows that we Christians have put up battle flags against homosexuals in such a way that we are a stumbling block between them and the JESUS they need.

Salvation is still by grace, through faith alone, and this is not of us, it is a gift from GOD.

And you are all talking like this is something that happened overnight, this man likely struggled and cried and sweat, and has lived with the guilot and self loathing for decades. And when he just gives it to the LORD and goes somewhere he can feel welcome, which clearly wouldn't be here, he gets slammed by people who think they have a right to do so.

Sorry, I am not going to join in on kicking one of my brothers while he is down. Apparently, you folk have no idea what he has gone through and you choose this course of reasoning out of your belief that you are somehow beeter than he is. Good luck with that.

I will try not to return to this string so you can continue unhindered by grace and forgiveness

Kross did you really read what I said?

If he truly had struggled with it dont you think he would go somewhere that would help him conquer it instead of only encourage it?

As I pointed out that "church" is not Christian because of how they deny that the Bible clearly shows that homosexuality is a sin.

I agree that Christians should not treat gays as dirt, or shun them; they are sinners just like us and we should show them love and grace. BUT

We cannot condone it, encourage it, or embrace it. That church he is excited about embraces sin, instead of teaching against it while at the same time not rejecting the sinner. This is my problem with them.

[Guest man]

Sorry, I am not going to join in on kicking one of my brothers while he is down.

1 Corinthians 5

11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner

[kross]

A Christian can struggle with homosexuality just as they can struggle with pornography, or even commit adultery. The point is a Christian knows it is wrong and is led to repent of it.

This "church" teaches that homosexuality is right, loving, and normal. They put articles on their site in which people have the nerve to say that David and Jonathon were gay, Lydia was lesbian, the man with a sick servant was gay, and even Jesus was gay! That last is WAY over the top.

This church is no more Christian than my unsaved neighbor,and they, with their wishy-washy view of the Bible's authority, are teaching against it's clear Word.

And I agree that it is a shame. But I have seen how regular churches treat sin and sinner and i can not blame him for trying to find someone who will not stand in condemnation of hi for his weakness.

GOD knows that we Christians have put up battle flags against homosexuals in such a way that we are a stumbling block between them and the JESUS they need.

Salvation is still by grace, through faith alone, and this is not of us, it is a gift from GOD.

And you are all talking like this is something that happened overnight, this man likely struggled and cried and sweat, and has lived with the guilot and self loathing for decades. And when he just gives it to the LORD and goes somewhere he can feel welcome, which clearly wouldn't be here, he gets slammed by people who think they have a right to do so.

Sorry, I am not going to join in on kicking one of my brothers while he is down. Apparently, you folk have no idea what he has gone through and you choose this course of reasoning out of your belief that you are somehow beeter than he is. Good luck with that.

I will try not to return to this string so you can continue unhindered by grace and forgiveness

Kross did you really read what I said?

If he truly had struggled with it dont you think he would go somewhere that would help him conquer it instead of only encourage it?

As I pointed out that "church" is not Christian because of how they deny that the Bible clearly shows that homosexuality is a sin.

I agree that Christians should not treat gays as dirt, or shun them; they are sinners just like us and we should show them love and grace. BUT

We cannot condone it, encourage it, or embrace it. That church he is excited about embraces sin, instead of teaching against it while at the same time not rejecting the sinner. This is my problem with them.

Sorry precious, i replied to some of the other things i read in your space.

I believe the man was in those other churches for some 40 years. You can only take so much grief from people before you have to move on. I had a roomate who was gay. He was the one who lead me to the LORD. I saw him on his face everyday for hours fighting against his demons. If people could see what I have seen, then they would understand that after a while, you need to get away from judgemental sinners who think their sins are not as bad as yours.

WOW, I just read that and realized it sounded like i was saying i was one of "THEM". I am not, just to make that clear.

Edited September 15, 2008 by kross

[kross]

When self righteous, white washed tombs full of dead mans bones point their bony, putrid, bloodstained fingers at someone else to judge and condemn them because they would dare to come forward and proclaim that they have been struggling with sin for years.

Is the finger you're pointing at us spotless?

Homosexuality is a sin. There's no getting around that.

Why did the Lord destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?

Your own words tell me you believe it's wrong.

And isnt it unfortunate that a man has to go to that kind of church to find love and compassion in his struggles.

Ray Boltz has leaad more people to the LORD, has girded up the foundations of more Christians, has served the cause fo JESUS in such a way that when it comes time to stand in front of JESUS on the day of judgement that he will be so close to the throne that most of us will not even be able to see that far.

Are you sure about that"

Matthew 7

21

[Guest man]

Romans 14:4 "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will stand, for GOD is able to make him stand".

So do you consider an individual who attends a church that says Jesus was gay to be doing the will of God?

Can we really call someone who teaches that homosexuality is right, loving, and normal, a servent of God?

[kross]

Romans 14:4 "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will stand, for GOD is able to make him stand".

So do you consider an individual who attends a church that says Jesus was gay to be doing the will of God?

Can we really call someone who teaches that homosexuality is right, loving, and normal, a servent of God?

I am one of those who thinks that GOD is soveriegn and that HE excercises HIS soverign nature in ways we do not understand.

To put that more clearly, I believe that GOD's will is always done.

I do not know if he is teaching that. I only know he is going to a church that might be.

OH, and yes, homosexuality is a sin and a life style that is a result of demonic influences and addiction.

Edited September 15, 2008 by kross

[mrs]

But kross you seem to be saying it is ok or even normal if a Christian lives as a gay person? Don't you believe they can have victory over it? Or that they should definitely work very hard at conquering it, and get help to do so?

And I seemed to get the impression from his site that he was just now coming out with it. So its not like he was taking heat from people like you imply.

[Guest man]

OH, and yes, homosexuality is a sin and a life style that is a result of demonic influences and addiction.

Can you tell me what the Word has to say about homosexuality?

Is it ok, is it not ok?

To put that more clearly, I believe that GOD's will is always done.

So you believe the people living in Sodom were doing the will of God?

What happened to those people?

[nebula]

I was given another perspective to consider here.

I was sharing this bad news with my brother's fiancee.

The very first thought she had was towards Ray Boltz's son whom she shared an internship with in Teen Mania.

"What about his son?" were her very first words.