oneness vs trinity

[Floatingaxe]

per Wiki:

Trinitarians believe one of the eternal God persons was manifested in the flesh and this was Jesus the Son of God. The other two God persons remained in heaven. Oneness believe the one God, the Father, came to earth in human form as Jesus.

Both theologically are fundamentally different. If Oneness believes that God left heaven and became Jesus, then they have flawed belief.

[Floatingaxe]

The trinitarian point of view is that the Father is the Father because He has a relationship with the Son and they both have a relationship with the Holy Spirit. This relationship existed from eternity past. One cannot be a father without having a son.

[HAZARD]

The trinitarian point of view is that the Father is the Father because He has a relationship with the Son and they both have a relationship with the Holy Spirit. This relationship existed from eternity past. One cannot be a father without having a son.

Well Said 'larry.'

Jesus said His Father "was greater than all" and "greater than I" (John 10:29; 14:28). He then could not be the Father. Paul also stated that the Father was "the head of Christ" (1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3). God the Father said of Jesus, "My beloved Son" (Matt. 3:16-17; 17:5; Ps. 2:7). Jesus said of Himself, "I am the Son of God" (John 10:38). Even demons said He was "the Son of God" (Mark 3:11) and the "Son of the Most High God" (Mark 5:7).

"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" (Hebrews 1:5).

"So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee" (Hebrews 5:5).

"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him" (1 John 4:9).

In eighty separate statements by Jesus Himself, Jesus constantly affirmed that He was not the Father and not the only person in the Godhead. These passages will not permit us to believe in any one person as being referred to. Jesus is the speaker, but He is not the one spoken of. (Matt. 7:21; 10:32-33; 11:27; 15:13; 16:17; 18:10, 19, 35; 19:17; 20:23; 24:36; 25:34; 26:29, 39, 42, 53; Luke 2:49; John 5:17, 43; 6:32, 65; 8:19, 28, 38, 49, 54; 10:17-18, 25, 29, 30, 32, 37; 12:26-28; 14:7, 12, 20, 21, 28; 15:1, 8, 10, 4, 23; 16:23-26; 18:11; 20:17, 21; Rev. 1;1; 2:27; 3:5, 12; 5:1-7, 13; 7:9, 15-16; 10:6; 11:15; 12:10; 21:10; 21:22-23; 22:1-5.

I would like someone to show at least more than these if this doctrin is in error.

[BlindSeeker]

per Wiki:

Trinitarians believe one of the eternal God persons was manifested in the flesh and this was Jesus the Son of God. The other two God persons remained in heaven. Oneness believe the one God, the Father, came to earth in human form as Jesus.

Both theologically are fundamentally different. If Oneness believes that God left heaven and became Jesus, then they have flawed belief.

That is not true. Jesus clearly stated He, the Son of man, was in heaven even while He was here on earth.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

[Floatingaxe]

per Wiki:

Trinitarians believe one of the eternal God persons was manifested in the flesh and this was Jesus the Son of God. The other two God persons remained in heaven. Oneness believe the one God, the Father, came to earth in human form as Jesus.

Both theologically are fundamentally different. If Oneness believes that God left heaven and became Jesus, then they have flawed belief.

No one believe God ever left Heaven, except Trinitarians, or at least you think a part of Him did ''God the Son'' supposedly left Heaven and became Jesus, and yes that is a flawed belief.

So, you refute the Wiki definition given? Why is it wrong? Not that Wiki is ever definitive, but that was my understanding as well.

[traveller]

per Wiki:

Trinitarians believe one of the eternal God persons was manifested in the flesh and this was Jesus the Son of God. The other two God persons remained in heaven. Oneness believe the one God, the Father, came to earth in human form as Jesus.

Both theologically are fundamentally different. If Oneness believes that God left heaven and became Jesus, then they have flawed belief.

That is not true. Jesus clearly stated He, the Son of man, was in heaven even while He was here on earth.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Very good point one I was about to make. Jesus told Nicodemus He was in Heaven even though we know he was on earth speaking to Nicodemus face to face.

That verse is in the trinitarians bible, as well.

[Floatingaxe]

John 3:13

And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

[traveller]

per Wiki:

Trinitarians believe one of the eternal God persons was manifested in the flesh and this was Jesus the Son of God. The other two God persons remained in heaven. Oneness believe the one God, the Father, came to earth in human form as Jesus.

Both theologically are fundamentally different. If Oneness believes that God left heaven and became Jesus, then they have flawed belief.

That is not true. Jesus clearly stated He, the Son of man, was in heaven even while He was here on earth.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Very good point one I was about to make. Jesus told Nicodemus He was in Heaven even though we know he was on earth speaking to Nicodemus face to face.

That verse is in the trinitarians bible, as well.

I think it is all the same Bible I use the KJV.

My point was, you said that the trinitarians believe that God left heaven partially when Jesus was on earth. The trinitarians believe that the Three are One. The One was not diminished when the Son was here. As Jesus said, He was in heaven even as He was here.

And yes, we have the same bible.

[Floatingaxe]

John 3:13

And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

I do not know what the [ ] or ( ) are about nor do I see how it is supposed to change the meaning of the verse as writing in the KJV.

The Amplified Bible changes no Scripture, but offers all possible meanings of words based on original texts. Jesus didn't necessarily say He was in heaven while here bodily. He said heaven is where he dwelt--it is His home--the same thing as giving someone your address.

[larryt]

I believe that Jesus was God in the flesh while God remained the eternal Spirit in Heaven. I believe there is one God (The Father) who became a man (The Son) and is a Spirit (The Holy Spirit) not three people or persons or entities or beings ect....

Then how do you explain this verse...

Matt 3:16 And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him:

Matt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This is not hard to explain. When God assumed a human existence with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of His humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. God the Father said to the Man Jesus Christ the Son of God that He was well pleased in Him and the Spirit of the Father ''The Holy Spirit descended on The man Jesus Christ. I really do not understand why trinitarians find this so hard to grasp.

or this verse....

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:5-7)

This verse says exactly what I believe the 3 witnesses are 1 and the same, not that the 1 God is 3 persons.

Hi Zeke,

Just so I understand your point of view would you please clarify something for me. In your response you said the following:

God the Father said to the Man Jesus Christ the Son of God that He was well pleased in Him and the Spirit of the Father ''The Holy Spirit descended on The man Jesus Christ.

You emphasize that Jesus was "the Man" and I am wondering if you believe that Jesus was "Very God" even as the Father was Very God at this point of time, or do you believe that Jesus was just a man and received/became God/Godhood when the Spirit descended on Him.

The trinitarian point of view is that the Father is the Father because He has a relationship with the Son and they both have a relationship with the Holy Spirit. This relationship existed from eternity past. One cannot be a father without having a son.

Thank you.

LT

Jesus was God while also being a man yet there is a distinction between His divinity and humanity as Paul points out in 1st Timothy.

1st Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ''THE MAN'' Christ Jesus.

Hi Zeke,

So what about my statement regarding the relationship that the Father has with the Son? Was the God talking to Himself when He said "this is my beloved Son in Whom I am well please."(Matt. 3:17)?

And regarding the distinction you mention, did the Son have a relationship with the Father before the foundation of the World?

LT