oneness vs trinity

[Floatingaxe]

John 3:13

And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

I do not know what the [ ] or ( ) are about nor do I see how it is supposed to change the meaning of the verse as writing in the KJV.

The Amplified Bible offers all possible meanings of words based on original texts. Jesus didn't necessarily say He was in heaven while here bodily. He said heaven is where he dwelt--it is His home--the same thing as giving someone your address.

Yes I had a young adult leader that when ever she didn't like or agree with what the Bible said, she would always pull out her amplified to try and she if she could force the scripture to say something other that what it meant. I found it to be a very nasty habit, I guess you have it as well.

No I don't. You would benefit from heeding your leaders.

If you are going to continue to insult me in every thread, you need to place me on ignore. PLEASE.

[Jeremiah Joel]

It is not about just one son but many sons. As the scripture speaks 1 Jn 3;1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

God is a Spirit, we only will see God (Father) through his son.... or shall I say sons (us).

The doctrine of the trinity is actually taken from the triune god of Egypt Horus, Isis, Seb. You may have seen these initials in various churches HIS. Without getting to deep into history; You can walk into various churches of various denominations and see HIS printed on various banners ect... on communion wafers also.

The Egyptians ate wafers to the son god. Many (most) churches have adopted this pratice today.

Jeremiah

There is some good instructional information regarding this through Chick publications. It is in a comic book formate.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Jeremiah Joel

[Jeremiah Joel]

It is not about just one son but many sons. As the scripture speaks 1 Jn 3;1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

God is a Spirit, we only will see God (Father) through his son.... or shall I say sons (us).

The doctrine of the trinity is actually taken from the triune god of Egypt Horus, Isis, Seb. You may have seen these initials in various churches HIS. Without getting to deep into history; You can walk into various churches of various denominations and see HIS printed on various banners ect... on communion wafers also.

The Egyptians ate wafers to the son god. Many (most) churches have adopted this pratice today.

Jeremiah

There is some good instructional information regarding this through Chick publications. It is in a comic book formate.

You cant be serious?

Here is a tip for you.

Get your Theology and Doctrine from the Bible and not from a very questionable source like Chick publications.

Hello RunnigGator

I have used Chick publicatons as a good starting point to search things out. I have look at other references and other sources. Thank you for mentioning this though, I would not want you or anyone to think that I have not looked into other sources of information.

I would think that you have used other sources of information, to search things out historically other than the bible... have you not?

Good things for you in truth I pray.

Jeremiah

[Jeremiah Joel]

Jeremiah[/quote]


I have and do use other sources of information, and not a single one of them would back up the garbage you posted above.


for one, it is IHS not HIS, you cant even get the distorted facts right.


Second, there is no connection between Isis-Horus-Seb and the Trinity; they have really nothing in common but the number 3.

[/quote]

Thank you for the correction RunningGator. IHS is correct, I do appreciate your help in noting this correction.

Jeremiah

[HAZARD]

Read John 1:1 and see what it says.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" and in John 1:14 it states;

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

The Word became flesh, not the Father.

The Bible say the word was God , Jesus Himself as well as Paul state that the Father is the only true God. Jesus said it in John 17:1-3, and Paul said it in 1st Cor 8:6. So to say the word is God yet not the Father is to go against the words of Jesus Himself as well as the rest of scripture

Jesus is not now sitting beside Himself in Heaven, did not talk to Himself whilst on the Earth, and the Father also did not talk to Himself from Heaven when He supposedly was on earth as some believe, neither did He send Himself to the Earth and pray to Himself in Heaven, calling Himself my Father in Heaven while He was on Earth, and to say so is foolish.

You obviously do not understand the duality of Christ, and by your response I would doubt that you would want to learn.

If you would like to learn google ''Christology''

Jesus said His Father "was greater than all" and "greater than I" (John 10:29; 14:28). He then could not be the Father. Paul also stated that the Father was "the head of Christ" (1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3). God the Father said of Jesus, "My beloved Son" (Matt. 3:16-17; 17:5; Ps. 2:7). Jesus said of Himself, "I am the Son of God" (John 10:38). Even demons said He was "the Son of God" (Mark 3:11) and the "Son of the Most High God" (Mark 5:7).

"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" (Hebrews 1:5).

"So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee" (Hebrews 5:5).

"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him" (1 John 4:9).

In eighty separate statements by Jesus Himself, Jesus constantly affirmed that He was not the Father and not the only person in the Godhead. These passages will not permit us to believe in any one person as being referred to. Jesus is the speaker, but He is not the one spoken of. (Matt. 7:21; 10:32-33; 11:27; 15:13; 16:17; 18:10, 19, 35; 19:17; 20:23; 24:36; 25:34; 26:29, 39, 42, 53; Luke 2:49; John 5:17, 43; 6:32, 65; 8:19, 28, 38, 49, 54; 10:17-18, 25, 29, 30, 32, 37; 12:26-28; 14:7, 12, 20, 21, 28; 15:1, 8, 10, 4, 23; 16:23-26; 18:11; 20:17, 21; Rev. 1;1; 2:27; 3:5, 12; 5:1-7, 13; 7:9, 15-16; 10:6; 11:15; 12:10; 21:10; 21:22-23; 22:1-5.

I gave 80 Scriptures showing Jesus and God the Father are not omnibody. You as usual give none to show the above Scriptures false?

[larryt]

I did not do was agree to your false view of the trinity.

I have no false view of the Trinity I understand the teaching perfectly. The crazy thing is most Trinitarians do not. They claim Jesus is only God the Son a separate being from God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, yet insist they believe He is ''fully God''. They teach that is only 1/3 of the Godhead ''God the Son'', yet get angry and offended if someone points out this truth. They claim there are 3 parts of the whole but refuse to admit that that means there are 3 1/3s to compose this whole. Yeah I think it is you that does not understand.

Hi Zeke,

Been reading the thread and it is a bit confusing. I am a Trinitarian and I do not nor have I ever believed, nor was I ever taught the Jesus was 1/3 of the Godhead. Since I was born again I have believed and do now believe that Jesus was and is now fully God and yet a separate person from the Father who is in Himself fully God and yet a separate person from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a separate person from the Son and the Father and yet is fully God.

The bible says that both the Son and the Spirit make intercession for the believers.

You may think you understand trinitarian doctrine but from our point of view you do not. I admit I do not understand your doctrine and the questions I asked the other day was so that I could understand better what you believe. It is obvious that you do not understand what trinitarians believe as your descriptions do not indicate that which I believe.

The fact is that there is a paradox that you do not understand about God being 3 and yet one. The human mind cannot fathom this paradox but that does not change the paradox.

God said, "Let US make man in OUR image."(Gen 1:26)

The name Elohim is a plural noun and is literally Gods.

I believe you understand what you believe about your own doctrine but it is apparent to me and many others here that you do not understand what trinitarians believe.

LT

[larryt]

Hi Zeke,

Been reading the thread and it is a bit confusing. I am a Trinitarian and I do not nor have I ever believed, nor was I ever taught the Jesus was 1/3 of the Godhead. Since I was born again I have believed and do now believe that Jesus was and is now fully God and yet a separate person from the Father who is in Himself fully God and yet a separate person from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a separate person from the Son and the Father and yet is fully God.

lol, this cracks me up. You say that there are 3 persons of God they are all separate from one another, and together they create only one God, but they are all separately fully 100%, not portions of the whole, and then in the next breath you say Oneness makes no since

Not to mention that the Trinity is not a biblical teaching.

It will only crack you up until you meet Him face to face. Did you bother to read that rest of my post? or did you just take the portion that RG put in. How do you handle the verses I mentioned?

Pr 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son

[larryt]

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

So you think what I believe id foolishness??????

I could say the same of you and my belief. That you do not understand it or think it is foolishness because you do not have spiritual discernment, and then you you say it back to me, and so on and so on and so on. It proves or disproves nothing.

It was you who put the falling down laughing emot.

lol, this cracks me up. You say that there are 3 persons of God they are all separate from one another, and together they create only one God, but they are all separately fully 100%, not portions of the whole, and then in the next breath you say Oneness makes no since 24.gif

I did not laugh of imply that what you wrote was foolishness till you mocked me in your post. I have been straight forward in all my posts. You will also notice that I never use the emots.

LT

[larryt]

I readyour post and I understand what is taught I simply disagree.

That is a convenient way of dodging the issue of a plural pronoun used by God Himself to denote Himself.

LT

[Floatingaxe]

Jesus Christ is both God and man, the man sitting next to the Father is the Son.

but he was neither prior to the birth of the Baby called Jesus, correct?

Prior to the incarnation the man Jesus the Son of God did not exist, While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and separate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yahweh, the Father, the Great I Am.

Jesus has always been. He was with God in Creation. "Let US Create man in OUR image. No, it wasn't Gabriel. That is a myth. We were not created in an archangel's image. We were created in the likeness of God, the Father, Son, and Holt Spirit.

This is not refutable.

John 1:1-5

1 In the beginning the Word already existed.

The Word was with God,

and the Word was God.

2 He existed in the beginning with God.

3 God created everything through him,

and nothing was created except through him.

4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,

and his life brought light to everyone.

5 The light shines in the darkness,

and the darkness can never extinguish it.