IS GOD's will done

[RebekahDavid]

Passage Matthew 23:37:

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

[OneLight]

No, not everything is in Gods will. Take the fall of man ...

Genesis 2:9-11

Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him,

[George]

When one is in the will of God -- then God can EVEN use things outside of His Will for Good -- but don't confuse this with it being HIS WILL.

God's will is that ALL men come to salvation, yet the road to destruction remains WIDE. So it's obvious that someone on earth CAN be OUTSIDE HIS WILL and DO THINGS OUTSIDE HIS WILL -- if they couldn't then ALL MEN would accept His FREE gift of salvation and enter into His Presence!

Before you post, think about what I just wrote!

[Guest shiloh357]

Did God orchestrate Joseph's abduction and transport to Egypt? Granted it is not the rape and murder of a child but it was evil that his brothers did.

LT

I will refer you to George's and Onelight's remarks above, as they are both correct and directly answer your question.

[Guest shiloh357]

I think an important question would be this...

Why would God go the trouble of revealing what His will is, and then cause people to do things that are outside of His will?

If God says murder, rape, etc. are sins and thus are against His Will, why would God then "okay" with or even cause to happen anything outside of His Will? How is that a scriptural demonstration of God's sovereignty? How can it be God's will for men to do things that contradict His Will?

Kross and larryt are both presenting a self-defeating argument. They are essentially arguing that God coerces or even approves of things being done that He has revealed are against His Will in the Scriptures. It is an example of extremely sloppy theology.

[kross]

QUOTE;

So you can see man raping and murdering a little girl as an acceptable part of God's Will? Its okay to rape a littel girl 'cause it might be in the Will of God?

Answer;

The reason GOD created this world and Satan is that we will see the very worst of the evil Satan and man will do. It is also to see the very best of the good that GOD and man can do. Further more, we see the vasy diference between the very best of man and the holiness of GOD.

GOD created all of what the world is to show all of HIS attributes. Not only in the day to day of HIS creation, but ultimately at HIS throne.

It is impossible to remove GOD from the equation and to say that what HE created is not what HE intended.

HIS creation reflects back on HIM. Through Satan and his work, we see the very oposite of GOD. Without the darkness, the light is not glorified.

In the days of Noah we see how the earth with no influence from GOD quickly degenerates to complete moral decay. After the flood, we see how GOD keeps an influence and controls the level of evil in the world by the choosing of a people and the interaction with men. After the cross, we see how GOD uses the HOLY SPIRIT to hold off the evil in individuals, completely altering their natures and the direction of their lives while allowing others to live out their fallenness.

All of what transpires in HIS creation happens for a reason and to fulfill HIS purpose.

Your emphasis on this rape and murder appears to be from the view point of the creation. It is not the worst or most horendous thing that happened that day. The purpose behind it is something known in the heavens. This little girl might hae been the most evil creation on the earth and GOD used Satan to end her. Or shee might have ben the most angelic person on the earth and GOD used Satan to show the totality of the evil of men. GOD only knows.

Either it happened for no good reason and is a senseless act of violence and death, or it has great importance in the over all plan and purpose of a GOD who "worketh all things after the councel of HIS own will"

As it has been stated before, GOD is not at war with Satan. If HE was, HE would just end it. Satan is warring against GOD and against HIS creation. We who are the wheat are the object of his warring, the tares are his subjects and his weapons. GOD still controls all that Satan is allowed to do.

[kross]

No, not everything is in Gods will. Take the fall of man ...

Genesis 2:9-11

Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him,

[RebekahDavid]

"HIS creation reflects back on HIM. Through Satan and his work, we see the very oposite of GOD. Without the darkness, the light is not glorified." kross

Revelation 21

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

18And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

[kross]

"HIS creation reflects back on HIM. Through Satan and his work, we see the very oposite of GOD. Without the darkness, the light is not glorified." kross

Revelation 21

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

18And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Exactly

We would never know the intensity of the light of the days to come were it not for the intensity of the darkness we live in today.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Careful Kross,

Either it happened for no good reason and is a senseless act of violence and death, or it has great importance in the over all plan and purpose of a GOD who "worketh all things after the councel of HIS own will"

Your argument attributes evil to God and God does no evil. There is His perfect will and His permissive will. God will use evil actions for His Good but He is not accountable for them.

Take as an example Polygmay. God never told anyone this action was okay. However, He did use it's results both bad and Good for His Glory.

You have also said this;

The reason GOD created this world and Satan is that we will see the very worst of the evil Satan and man will do.

However, the Bible is quite clear that satan and this world were Created for Gods Glory. Again you attribute the evil actions of satan to God. God Created satan as the Covering Cheurb and he was Created perfect until iniquity was found within him.

Eze