The Rapture

[irishcowboy]

Isn't it true that when Jesus comes to earth the first time for The Rapture, He isn't going to set foot down on the earth, but we will meet him up in the air? And isn't it possible that this could be accomplished by a spacecraft? In fact, isn't this just about the only plausible situation where this event could take place? Is a "Beam me up Scotty" idea too far-fetched? The thought occured to me after reading the first chapter of Ezekiel;it sure sounds like Ezekiel is describing spacecraft there, or what we refer to as UFO's. If in fact He did come for us in a spacecraft, would you go, or not believe? Shiloh62

No it is not true that Jesus' feet will not hit the ground, we meet Jesus in the air as He is returning to earth and then come with Him to the earth to reign with Him as kings and priest for the 1,000 years Millennial reign. And no there will be no space crafts involved.

The Lord's feet will not hit the ground when He returns , believers will meet him in the air then after the tribulation He comes back for the 1,000 year reign.

There is only one return of Christ. You are right we do meet Him in the air but we do not go to Heaven at this time, we meet the Lord in the air as He is coming to earth we meet him and continue with Him as He descends to earth.

funny, i have never read this, about making a loopty loop in the air. when do the wedding garments come into play? where do we get our new cloths? when do we get our steeds?

just askin.....

mike

The Bible never say that we ever go to heaven after the rapture nor does it say that Jesus meets us half way and then returns Himself to Heaven. What the Bible does say is that Jesus is coming to earth, that we will meet Him in the air, and that we will reign with Him here on earth during the Millennium. So put it together it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

does it ever talk about the Great White Throne Judgment?

how about the Judgment Seat of the Lamb?

does it ever talk about receiving crowns?

how about the Wedding feast?

Christ spoke of the Wedding feast, for a good reason. the tradition was that when betrothed, the bridegroom would go off and make their home. and when finished, he would send (or could send) runners back saying it was about ready. no one knew for sure when the bridegroom would arrive, but had an idea.

Christ being the Bride Groom, has gone to prepare a place for His Bride (specifically says this, do you not agree?) and then He, Christ, will return for His Bride (the Church, not the unchurch, but the believers not the unbelievers, for the unbelievers are not of the church, they are of the flesh, of this world).... now... when the Bride Groom comes for His Bride, He takes her to their new home.... and they will have the wedding feast, which would last sometimes for several days about a week in length ( a week, being one day is a year )

also, if you recall, that when some one got married, they were not sent off to battle until they were married for about a year, this was for the bride and groom to become one, consemate their marriage and to start a family, so that his name could be carried on.

Those who have stained garments will not be allowed in to the wedding feast.... those that have rejected the BrideGroom will also be left out in the darkness..

The Word also tells us that when the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, that is when the anti-christ / beast gain control. as long as the Church is here, the Holy Spirit will be here. when the Holy Spirit is with drawn from this world, so will the church, for if the Church is still here, then the Holy Spirit will be also, for the Holy Spirit dwells in the people that are of Christ.

prior to Christ coming to earth, the Holy Spirit would only work with one or two (or a few) people at a time, but remained in the Holy of Holies, behind the curtain, the vail...... when Christ died, the vail was torn, the Spirit of God no longer rested in one place, no longer was kept from going to and fro. The Holy Spirit is then free to move to whom ever He wishes. and on the day of Pentacost, the Holy Spirit began dwelling in people, multiple people at one time, not just one at a time. the Holy Spirit is at this time anywhere and everywhere in this world...... When the Holy Spirit is pulled back that will be the only time that the anti-christ and beast can do what they want to do. and that will not last long. the one that restrains the devil will be removed.

during the time of the Great Trib, where is the Holy Spirit going to be? I believe there will be some that will receive a portion of the Holy Spirit, just as in the Old Testament, but I believe that the Holy Spirit will be at the Wedding Feast, for that is where the Church is going to be.

as far as the Tribulation, the first part of it will be relatively peaceful, and actually might even look like the peace treaty will work.... but then, when the people that have volentarily taken the mark have done got it, then those that do not have it the presure will start getting a bit tougher, until it is mandated that anyone that does not have it will be put to death....

if the rapture does not happen until the end of the Tribulation there will not be much of a rapture for those that are alive and remain. how many people do you know that could live for three and a half years with out being able to buy food? how many?

of all the people i know, there is only a hand full of people that could survive with out any store bought items for any length of time... one of them is me, I know I could. most people of my generation could not. of my childrens generation, the numbers grow even slimmer.

survival will be the name of the game for those that do not receive the mark of the beast, or his number or worship him....

if Christ was coming straight to the earth, then why not just wait until He gets here to call the graves open and no one would have to go fly up just to return....

as far as only being one return of Christ, you are right, when He calls up the church, He has not returned, you are right about when He returns he will be riding on the clouds, clothed in white, will be coming back for battle, not for a wedding, will be coming back to claim His rightful place, His Kingdom. and will lock the beast into the pit, will sweep house of all demons. and we will live with Christ, for 1000 years, during this time there will be virtually no evil on earth.

Then,

after the 1000 years, satan is released for a short season, and will have a time where he will be able to try and deceive again. unfortunately there will be some that fall prey to him even after being with Christ for all that time......

then there will be the final battle, the battle of gog and magog..... the final resurection that of those that were not found righteous, and then the final judgment..... this is where those that are found unrighteous, will share in the same rewards as the devil and his followers, eternal separation from God..... the lake of fire. this will be one place where every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus, Christ, is Lord, but some will be doing it as they are begging for mercy and being thrown in to the lake of fire, while others are doing it in praise and worship of their Lord.

there is no way to do the end times justice on a single thread, or even in a single day. there is so much more to it, then any of us have listed, for one reason, John did not tell all, and neither did Daniel or even Isaiah or any of the prophets..... not everything that is going to happen is written in the Bible, nor is it anywhere else on this earth, and the Word of God tells us this.

do I know it all? no, not in the least, through my studies of the last 35 years plus, this is what I believe, not from commentaries, but what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me through The Word, through vissions, and through dreams, through words of prophecy, tongues and interpretations, through words of knowledge and wisdom. am i 100% correct? well, that is a good question, I do not know if I am or not, for I am not God, and I will not pretent to either. I do know what I know what I know, and that is, I am ready to handle what ever is tossed my way, for Christ is my strength.

there is not a single person on this earth that has been given all the information about it.... no, not one single person, not even you or me...

some things we have to just keep in faith. and just believe in the Lord. for God is the only one that knows it all......

mike

[Massorite]

Isn't it true that when Jesus comes to earth the first time for The Rapture, He isn't going to set foot down on the earth, but we will meet him up in the air? And isn't it possible that this could be accomplished by a spacecraft? In fact, isn't this just about the only plausible situation where this event could take place? Is a "Beam me up Scotty" idea too far-fetched? The thought occured to me after reading the first chapter of Ezekiel;it sure sounds like Ezekiel is describing spacecraft there, or what we refer to as UFO's. If in fact He did come for us in a spacecraft, would you go, or not believe? Shiloh62

No it is not true that Jesus' feet will not hit the ground, we meet Jesus in the air as He is returning to earth and then come with Him to the earth to reign with Him as kings and priest for the 1,000 years Millennial reign. And no there will be no space crafts involved.

The Lord's feet will not hit the ground when He returns , believers will meet him in the air then after the tribulation He comes back for the 1,000 year reign.

There is only one return of Christ. You are right we do meet Him in the air but we do not go to Heaven at this time, we meet the Lord in the air as He is coming to earth we meet him and continue with Him as He descends to earth.

yuk,yuk,yuk,yuk You got that right.

funny, i have never read this, about making a loopty loop in the air. when do the wedding garments come into play? where do we get our new cloths? when do we get our steeds?

just askin.....

mike

The Bible never say that we ever go to heaven after the rapture nor does it say that Jesus meets us half way and then returns Himself to Heaven. What the Bible does say is that Jesus is coming to earth, that we will meet Him in the air, and that we will reign with Him here on earth during the Millennium. So put it together it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Wrong!

You forgot to mention the wedding supper which takes place in HEAVEN. You also forgot to mention the multitute which no man can count that will be standing before the throne of God. That also is in HEAVEN. Somebody is missing a few of their rockets.

It was North Korea. Iran found them. NOT good.

[OneLight]

So put it together it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

You know Ezekiel, you don't have to be so crass with your words. You are a disciple of Christ, are you not? Did not Christ tell us that we will be known by our love for one another?

John 13:35

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

If that came off unloving to you onelight I apologize to you and to mr & mrs Irish

[irishcowboy]

So put it together it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

You know Ezekiel, you don't have to be so crass with your words. You are a disciple of Christ, are you not? Did not Christ tell us that we will be known by our love for one another?

John 13:35

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

If that came off unloving to you onelight I apologize to you and to mr & mrs Irish

I did not take it as such, ezekiel, you have read and studied , i have no idea how much time you have put in to the subject, and I do not know who your mentors have been, so I am not trying to disprove anything you have said, for I know that we can have several people read the same passages and will arrive with different conclusions.

I do not believe we are so much different, other then the sequence of events. these can be the hard part to put together, one reason for this is that they are not written down for us in the sequencs they are taking place, some of the information is in the old testament, some in the new.

and then

with everything else we have studied, we still have some speculation.

I have studied from the different views, and have still come to the same conclusion that we (the church) will not be here during the Trib.

whether we believe in the Pretrib, Midtrib, or even the Posttrib, this is not really the thing we need to be preparing for, we need to be getting ourselves ready to be the Bride of Christ.

I remember in the 1970's there was a lot of doom and gloom, and it did seem to chase people away.

I see this world following in the steps of the 7 churches, in each fellowship you can see one (or even more) of the 7.

I know that I am very passionate about things I believe, and would love to have nothing more then to have everyone feel as I do, and as you do about what we believe.

I do not want to squelch your fire, not in the least, i want that fire to burn in you, so that you can witness Christ to all those around you. I have seen too many times a young person on fire, have his fire doused with cold water, told to be more dignified, told not to offend others, to be more politically correct..

take political correctness and throw it in the rubbish pile, stoke that fire up, get rid of the water, keep it away from the flames, until you have reached a point like Elijah, when every thing can be soaking in water, standing in water, and you walk by and the fire consumes it.

stay in the Word. do not allow anger to become bitterness, for when that happens, we have allowed a cancer to start growing, and we are becoming more like the pharasis and such. righteousness is wonderful, self righteousness is not.

continue your studies. continue in the Lord..

blessings

mike

[kross]

Please take your time in explaining to me how I have misunderstood these verses and what they are really saying.

HIS Love and Peace

All of the chapter 15 is about the resurrection of the dead, both good and bad people. In your research, check verse 22.

And you never answered my question about the seventh trump, do you agree that it's the second advent?

All of chapter 15 is about the resurrection of the dead in CHRIST.

Yes, the seventh trumpet, the last trump, is at the end of the tribulation when JESUS returns for HIS people. The dead in CHRIST will rise and we that are alive, willl be changed. We will meet HIM in the air. At this time, HE will destroy the army that has come out against HIM with the sword of HIS mouth.

I do not believe that this took place in history. There are compelling arguements to interpret certain parts of history to be the fullfillment of these prophesies, but they do not line-upwith what has happened since or is happening now.

You are welcome to believe what you wish on that subject, I will still be looking for the signs and for the coming of the LORD.

[irishcowboy]

Isn't it true that when Jesus comes to earth the first time for The Rapture, He isn't going to set foot down on the earth, but we will meet him up in the air? And isn't it possible that this could be accomplished by a spacecraft? In fact, isn't this just about the only plausible situation where this event could take place? Is a "Beam me up Scotty" idea too far-fetched? The thought occured to me after reading the first chapter of Ezekiel;it sure sounds like Ezekiel is describing spacecraft there, or what we refer to as UFO's. If in fact He did come for us in a spacecraft, would you go, or not believe? Shiloh62

No it is not true that Jesus' feet will not hit the ground, we meet Jesus in the air as He is returning to earth and then come with Him to the earth to reign with Him as kings and priest for the 1,000 years Millennial reign. And no there will be no space crafts involved.

The Lord's feet will not hit the ground when He returns , believers will meet him in the air then after the tribulation He comes back for the 1,000 year reign.

There is only one return of Christ. You are right we do meet Him in the air but we do not go to Heaven at this time, we meet the Lord in the air as He is coming to earth we meet him and continue with Him as He descends to earth.

funny, i have never read this, about making a loopty loop in the air. when do the wedding garments come into play? where do we get our new cloths? when do we get our steeds?

just askin.....

mike

The Bible never say that we ever go to heaven after the rapture nor does it say that Jesus meets us half way and then returns Himself to Heaven. What the Bible does say is that Jesus is coming to earth, that we will meet Him in the air, and that we will reign with Him here on earth during the Millennium. So put it together it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Wrong!

You forgot to mention the wedding supper which takes place in HEAVEN. You also forgot to mention the multitute which no man can count that will be standing before the throne of God. That also is in HEAVEN. Somebody is missing a few of their rockets.

1st of all you cannot show me one verse to support you claim that the marriage supper is in Heaven and 2ndly the multitude that cannot be counted are martyrs, that is how they got to heaven through death, not rapture.

where does it happen? the ball is in your court......

[kross]

I, for one, believe that after the rapture, the Christians stay in heaven with JESUS and the 1,000 years of peace is for Israel, who is still on the earth.

JESUS will reagn from heaven and the decimated world governments and infrastructure, as a result of the rapture, will rebuild for 1,000 years. Satan will be released and will build an army from all of the wicked in the world, and attack Israel. At this tie, JESUS will destroy then all with fire from heaven, the new Jerusalem will descend, and paradise will be established.

Most of that is from Rev. 19-21. With a few fill in the blanks from other scriptures.

[kross]

The best total picture of things is in Revelation 20 & 21. In Ch 20 the Church is resurrected/translated when the fire from heaven falls. All of the Magogites are killed in the event, then the dead (unbelievers--we are NOT dead, we are asleep) are brought back to life (not resurrected, the words are different) and Satan is judged and cast into the Lake of Fire. Then the dead are judged according to their works and condemned. When this is over, THEN the Holy City comes down. The Holy City is obviously the Church, she is a bride adorned for her husband, which Paul calls us elsewhere in Scripture. We have been observing the proceedings (and probably doing the Snoopy dance when Satan gets cast into the Lake of Fire, LOL) from the air. Once all of the wicked have been judged, THEN we come to the New Earth. The Church is never spoken of as 'going to heaven' but the state of things will be OF heaven (Holy), and the New Earth paradise-like (Edenic). There is nothing in Scripture one way or the other which speaks of whether we will have access to the Third heaven, the dwellingplace of God, but since we are His children, I see no reason we wouldn't.

Deceased believer's spirits at this present time are with Christ in heaven at the right hand of God. Man, however, was not meant to dwell in the heavens but on the earth. We have bodies and will have bodies in the future specifically for existence in this plane. what the capabilities of those bodies will be, only God knows.

You kinda missed some points in those two verses. JESUS defeats an army at HIS return, it doesn't say HE destroys everyone. It also says HE does so with the sword of HIS mouth, not fire. These verses do not talk about destroying with fire until after the millenium, which is when the judgement takes place, the wicked are cast into the lake of fire and the new Jerusalem comes down. Just as JESUS ascended in bodily form to be in heaven, we too will ascend in bodily form to be where HE is. We will return when the new Jerusalem descends at the end of 1,000 years.

[OneLight]

You kinda missed some points in those two verses. JESUS defeats an army at HIS return, it doesn't say HE destroys everyone. It also says HE does so with the sword of HIS mouth, not fire. These verses do not talk about destroying with fire until after the millenium, which is when the judgement takes place, the wicked are cast into the lake of fire and the new Jerusalem comes down. Just as JESUS ascended in bodily form to be in heaven, we too will ascend in bodily form to be where HE is. We will return when the new Jerusalem descends at the end of 1,000 years.

You missed the posts where he believes that we are now in the time known as the millennium. He does not believe that this is a future event, but a present one.

[hayahtowb]

Yes, the seventh trumpet, the last trump, is at the end of the tribulation when JESUS returns for HIS people. The dead in CHRIST will rise and we that are alive, willl be changed. We will meet HIM in the air. At this time, HE will destroy the army that has come out against HIM with the sword of HIS mouth.

Thanks for your reply, and 'to reveal', or 'make known', is the same as the last book of scripture. It tells of the return in chapter 1 (of course) and verse 7 shows no rapture. Christ Himself teaches against this, just as in the O/T teachings. It's documented for us in Matthew 24.25-30 that there are no secrets, and we've been told of all things ((His word) when it's rightly divided), and in verses 40-46 Christ gives a example of one taken and one left while working, and the one left working is the one blessed. He teaches of no escape, no rapture. The time of salvation in the flesh is gone, it's judgment time (verse 51).