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Read 1 John 5:18: “ We know that the person who has been born from God does not go on sinning. Rather, the Son of God protects them, and the evil one cannot harm them.” Or – just for example - Eph. 1: 17-22: "I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah,the most glorious Father, would give you a wise spirit, along with revelation that comes through knowing the Messiah fully. 18 Then, with the eyes of your hearts enlightened, you will know the confidence that is produced by God having called you, the rich glory that is his inheritance among the saints, 19 and the unlimited greatness of his power for us who believe, according to the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he brought about in the Messiah when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realm. 21 He is far above every ruler, authority, power, dominion, and every name that can be named, not only in the present age, but also in the one to come. 22 God has put everything under the Messiah’s feet and has made him the head of everything for the good of the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills everything in every way." Looking around the world I see Christ in every smile and every act of kindness. I see how the mustard-seed of faith that He planted, did indeed move mountains, when Martin Luther King had his dream or when the peace prayers in the Leipzig Nikolai-Church with its ensuing demonstrations eventually brought down the Berlin wall. I see Him even in our darkest hours. In Auschwitz he was right there with Maximilian Kolbe and in Christ it was Kolbe who was victorious, not his executioners. Love, junobet

Hi there Davida, What I strongly suspect is that you used the Scofield Bible for your personal Bible studies and mistook its commentaries and references for what the Bible actually says. Or else you got subconsciously influenced by American Pop-culture with all its “Left Behind” nonsense. There’s a reason that no Christian ever came up with the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture before Darby: you can simply not find it in Scripture unless you twist Scripture in the most artificial ways that Darby twisted it in to accommodate a Scottish peasant-girl’s visions. My point about reading the Bible literally was that – whatever they claim – evangelical fundamentalists (also a rather modern movement) clearly don’t read the Bible 100% literally. Instead they randomly pick and choose what to take literally and what not to take literally in order to make the Bible conform to their pre-conceived ideas. As for Christ taking the OT literally: being a 1th century Jew He certainly did not take it literally in the ways modern day fundamentalists take it literally. Watch Him placing parts of scripture over others when debating with the Sadducees and Pharisees and even placing His own proclamations over Scripture (“but I say to you …”). We are to read all Scripture in Christ’s light and in the light of its two highest commandments that He lined out for us in Mt 22:34-40. Love, junobet

You must have overlooked that I just quoted the Bible to you. Genesis 1:31 clearly tells us that God’s creation is good. I don’t doubt that the world is afflicted after our fall. But God’s answer to this fall is Jesus Christ. In Christ God reconciles the world to Himself and ours is the ministry of reconciliation: “All of this comes from God, who has reconciled us to himself through the Messiah[g] and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 for through the Messiah,[h] God was reconciling the world to himself by not counting their sins against them. He has committed his message of reconciliation to us. 20 Therefore, we are the Messiah’s[i] representatives, as though God were pleading through us. We plead on the Messiah’s[j] behalf: “Be reconciled to God!” 21 God[k] made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God’s righteousness would be produced in us.” (2 Cor. 5:18-21) So if God’s righteousness is produced in us, we ought to be able to be good stewards of this earth as we are told to be in Genesis: http://www.christianethicstoday.com/cetart/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.main&ArtID=1172. IMHO, good Christians do not declare God’s creation as inherently evil and bound for decay, they do not fold their hands in their laps whilst waiting for catastrophes and wars taking their course or even cheering them on in the kind of escapist mindset that the belief in pre-tribulation rapture obviously encourages. Instead we are called to cherish God’s creation, to better our societies and to see to it that God’s will is not only done in heaven but also on earth. This is what we pray for in the Lord’s prayer. Love, junobet

In several decades in many chruches i never heard the gospel, or saw it. it was truly a blessing and miracle "SURPRISE! SALVATION COMES" - since everyone keeps telling everyone they're saved because they're in the right church.... not learning to "test" everything by God's WORD until proven true, and not learning to walk with Jesus, hand in hand, by faith in Him by His Grace ((even the Faith is a Gift from the Father in heaven, as it is written.))... not learning also, until meeting Jesus, as sheep, we KNOW HIS VOICE ((inside; His Promise, His Word)) and follow Him Daily. ((always,forever, in line with all of His Word: in stark contrast to tb et al)) SHALOM SHALOM

I think we can agree on that, though I might challenge the exact point where this disagreement began. It seems like it's main seed was in the Darby theories, then went into the Scofield Reference Bible, from there it escalated again, through the semenaries, but eschatology was not a huge topic. Then the rebirth of the nation of Israel, added a new emphasis. Suddenly, the actual building of another temple seemed possible. Fast forward to institutions like Calvary Chapel and their rapid growth as a denomination (in spite of their claim to be non-denominational) and their huge following on Christian radio, the introduction of the Hal Lindsey books, and a few films like "A Thief in the Night" and "A Distant Thunder", raised the topic to more prominence. Later, we got the Left Behind series, and so, the pre-trib rapture theory has had a large marketing push, so to speak. That is where the money seems to be, LOL. However, I think that the rise of pre-tribism, has been a good thing, I really do. I am not fond of it's teaching, as I consider it to be error, but I love the fact that it has gotten people to read their Bibles, and look into these things.

You've raised a very good point. Should employers be concerned with the wellbeing of their employees? Is that biblical? Since not all employers are Christians, can this be promoted on a purely selfish basis? It is always amazing to see how short-sighted and greedy most employers are, and as a result they lose their good people. Every employer has the responsibility to pay a living wage, but if the employer were to pay a BETTER THAN LIVING WAGE he would end up with the best and most loyal employees. Henry Ford proved the soundness of this principle. So paying employees poorly is definitely an example of oppressing the poor, the fatherless and the widows, and also short-changing oneself. Scripture also says that what men sow they will also reap. So for purely selfish reasons, an employer should apply the Golden Rule when it comes to wages and benefits. Indeed, labour unions would become redundant if employers paid their employees what they would pay themselves in similar jobs. Profit-sharing is not only good business, but makes every employee a co-owner. However, the employer must be totally transparent in this, and also award those who make the most contributions to the profitability of the business, and fire those who do not. "The labourer is worthy of his hire" is not only a biblical principle, but also an economic principle. The compensation of those who labour in the Word and in doctrine is also addressed in Scripture. Evangelists, pastors, teachers and elders are not "employees" of the church but servants of God. Therefore they should really be compensated as "contractors". The ones who do not labour should not be rewarded, whereas the ones who earnestly labour are worthy of "double honour" and should be well rewarded. The hiring and firing of pastors as practised in the majority of evangelical and fundamentalist churches is really not scriptural. Neither is the requirement that they have a Master of Divinity before they can minister the Word.

Anyone who wants to profess the faith or preach in the U.S. is free to do so. Christians are just AFRAID to do that; don't want to be labeled haters. Personally, I don't care; I'll say whatever, whenever and the consequences be what they be. What Christians are getting arrested daily in this country?

Hello, Firestormx I want to tell you brother that we all see it and feel what you are saying, and it is of the times we are now living , is to the hand to mouth , for some, and lots of over indulgence for some, but the system is working its way to gather all, and to place all into a need that will not and cannot be refused, and will be hard to resist ,we have crossed into a new motion of change in people in governing and in our morals and standards, for it is going , as planned by and we are seeing the revelations of man unfold, we have come to the doors of where we see as this generation, looks back to see its history and tough times, to today where all that is good is evil and evil is now the good, so I would not worry about how the economy is going for we need to prepare, for what is not seen and soon to hit, we are going to have tribulation , and tough times coming, this is just the start , and many refuse to believe this, but what is being set is dependency on the system for food medical and living, if they can maximize the push to get everyone on it, and they will, then all will be in need and people will do what ever it took to get it,to survive and feed their families, is going to be extremely hard, and this is where we get, the SYSTEM, to control the people for who ever controls the food and the oil ,controls the people we forget that there was slaves and masters and how the times of past was, when Christians were fed to the lions and killed for not bowing, so this is the new way of getting people to bow, slow fade, little by little inch by inch, law by law, restriction by restriction , a piece of freedom at a time, invent another war , and place more orders to control , more rules to follow and more imposements to be had i8n revelation, it talks about the mark of the beast , and people are saying when they see it they will know, ? Huh... its already here ! its just not in full swing yet, but they are lifting the nets ,and many will be caught and taken out ,with out knowing even what happened so let us focus on Jesus and salvation, and God is in control we are told of these things and He is faithful to us until the end. its not going to get any better, and there is only the words of the ancient to show us today what they saw yesterday , and now it has come, we are in the last days and devastation is hiding around the corner, let us be one with God , and be saved for we will need Gods strength to over come. and endure until the end.set your mind up above, for the world is about to be judged, and America is next, we have rejected God, and now comes what comes. blessings brother

Not just addiction (which is already way past what is unacceptable). Since Christians are required to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" (meaning to be fully under the control of the Holy Spirit) being "under the influence of alcohol" (2-3 drinks) already violates that requirement. BTW the word "wine " in the Bible can mean anything from simple unfermented grape juice all the way to "strong drink" (100 proof whisky with 50% alcohol is much stronger than any Bible wine). You will notice that when speaking of the Lord's Supper the Bible does not say "wine" but "the cup".

Right, people mistake the "sleep" of the body - a euphamism for death, for the state of the soul. The soul does not sleep after the body dies.

No soul sleeps in the grave. All souls either go to heaven or hades immediately after death depending on if they were a born again Christian. You are talking about soul sleep and that is not Biblical.

As long as Satan and his evil angels are on the loose, Christ is not reigning over this world with a rod of iron. How does this basic fact escape you? Like I said, this is the Radical Islam Millennium, not the Kingdom of God established on earth with UNIVERSAL RIGHTEOUSNESS, peace, and prosperity. Christians should be the last people to kid themselves, since they are supposed to have a knowledge of the truth. So kindly explain to all the readers in what sense Christ is ruling this evil world right now (apart from the sovereignty of God, which allows evil, and will even allow Satan to control this world completely for 3 1/2 years in the future).

I am so sorry. I can empathize. Please know you are in my prayers.

Christine, if you want to talk please pm me.. Love you girl!

Thank you everyone!

Praying for you Christine...

Christ said about the coming of His Kingdom: Luke 17 The Coming of the Kingdom20Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." Looking at verse 20: New International VersionOnce, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, New Living TranslationOne day the Pharisees asked Jesus, "When will the Kingdom of God come?" Jesus replied, "The Kingdom of God can't be detected by visible signs. English Standard VersionBeing asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, Berean Study BibleWhen asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Berean Literal BibleAnd having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God is coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with careful observation, New American Standard Bible Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; King James BibleAnd when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Holman Christian Standard BibleBeing asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God will come, He answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with something observable; International Standard VersionOnce Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come. He answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with a visible display. NET BibleNow at one point the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, so he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, Aramaic Bible in Plain EnglishAnd when some of the Pharisees asked Yeshua, “When is the Kingdom of God coming”, he answered and he said to them, “The Kingdom of God does not come with what is observed.” GOD'S WORD® TranslationThe Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God would come. He answered them, "People can't observe the coming of the kingdom of God. New American Standard 1977 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; Jubilee Bible 2000And when he was asked of the Pharisees when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation; King James 2000 BibleAnd when he was demanded by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with outward observation: American King James VersionAnd when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation: American Standard VersionAnd being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Douay-Rheims BibleAnd being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Darby Bible TranslationAnd having been asked by the Pharisees, When is the kingdom of God coming? he answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation; English Revised VersionAnd being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Webster's Bible TranslationAnd when he was asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Weymouth New TestamentBeing asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, He answered, "The Kingdom of God does not so come that you can stealthily watch for it. World English BibleBeing asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; Young's Literal TranslationAnd having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, 'The reign of God doth not come with observation; So if you're looking to see evidence of the kingdom of God with your natural eyes, Jesus said you aren't going to find it, so it's no wonder you say "Look around the world , do you really think we Christians are ruling with Christ now?" and don't see evidence with your natural eyes. Jesus said you won't see evidence with your natural eyes, that this is not how His Kingdom is known. We are not to be looking for a natural, physical manifestation of His Kingdom. If we do we won't find it. He said His Kingdom is IN OUR MIDST - The Kingdom of God is WITHIN US. This is where the Kingdom of God is. The kingdom of God is within you "Is" translates ἐστί esti which is in the PRESENT TENSE and INDICATIVE MOOD - This means This is now - Present tense This is as simple statement of fact - Indicative Mood This is what Jesus said about His Kingdom. And this has been true about the coming of His Kingdom since He spoke those words. The Kingdom of God has been within believers ever since - here on earth. It is unwise to ignore Jesus' warning that we are not to seek the coming of His Kingdom with our natural eyes and understanding. It is unwise to ignore Jesus said very clearly, the Kingdom of God is within us right NOW.

Thank you other one You said what I wanted to say.

Let me start by saying that I am soooo sorry you were abused.... I can't say that I know what you went through because it has not happened to me..... and i would think one would have to experience that to really understand... My prayers are that you might find relief from the stress of it. However let me assure you that pedophiles do not go to heaven. and Especially if they are/were priests.

I hope you mean we will be as priests in His Kingdom with Christ as He rules on earth in the millennium. That's true and important to remember.

A handful of Christians are actually following Christ 100%. Yes, Satan is all around us but as Christians we keep our focus 100% on Christ and that means what we say and do reflexes that. No, in the Millennial kingdom we will rule the nations with Christ not here on earth.

you are so on mark, you have made me so proud to be a believer today with the words of wisdom given in this post, blessing to you for you have blessed me and others that see and read this, keep up the fight and run the race that we run for they that endure until the end in the word shall be saved, I have come down this same path as you , my sister and come to the same conclusions and thoughts that you have expressed, we are but sinners in a world that hates truth , but will love and hold on to lies, for it is about what satan has done through the hundreds and thousands of years to blind the people from the truth for we do not fight with one another, but it is a spiritual fight , and only through the holy spirit with in you would you be able to say what you did , for the scriptures any one can read , but to know and understand them is only for the true believer, for we see as the world sees ,but we see through it , and we see it through the eyes of the spirit , so this ,is why it is said, that many seek through the scriptures to find salvation and never find it, for it is hidden in the open , and the blind cannot see it. but it is of God that brings us and the spirit that leads us to the pure holiness and truth of what it says, for the truth cannot be understood, unless they are in tuned with the spirit and in the word of God, for God is truth, and His laws is truth , and if we follow what God has given us, then we will walk in spirit and the truth , and the flesh will have no power over the self, for many are seeking to buy there way into the kingdom, and it cannot be purchased by us, we can only surrender, to the one that is able to save and bring us in, many churches have lost there way , and watered down and made God of no effect in life, and so, we must read the bible and pray , and surrender, and have the faith to believe that God is good, and He is the source of all of our power. and encourage others to do the same, for we are at the doors. blessings

amen ..that is true

Isaiah 45...7 times within one chapter does God say that He is God ..there is no other. I had a group of teenagers in the library and heard them saying the dreaded "omg" and I told the girl she should not say that. Her response was to turn to the others and ask, "What did I say?" I response I said one day she would be asking God for help..but how would He know if she really meant it. It is so common to hear 5,6 yr olds and younger use the term because they hear it from the parents and think it just an expression of frustration. What is Holy has become so common place today and that is because so few bother to read the Bible even though they may call themselves 'christian'. There is no one to tell them they are taking a name so Holy and trampling under foot.

Read the Bible and see. The world is pernicious. Society is evil. and getting much much worse daily. Like Davida says: the Bible is whole and literal. ((but you don't have to accept it)).

The only way alcohol is a sin if your addicted to it. Anything that has power over you besides God is sin. KJV 1 6:12 Corinthians but I will not be brought under the power of any. You cause your neighbor to stumble for ex. You have a friend a recovering alcoholic and you drink alcohol in his sight thus tempting him. KJV Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. And finally if you end up being drunk by it. KJV Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

Thank you both!

You’re a bit prone to Manichaean heresy here, aren’t you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism The world, God’s creation, is not bad: “Now God saw all that he had made, and indeed, it was very good!” (Gen. 1:31) Faith, Love, Hope, brother!

To be complete, there is also a passage endorseing buy 'strong drink' with tithe money, so, it is always important, to check contexts carefully, a read every passage you can on a subject, before forming doctrines or conclusions, about a topic.

As I understand it the Saints and martyrs live right now and reign with Christ, all others will sleep till judgement day. Mind you: time gets probably very relative when you are dead.

Good won't prevail over the world UNTIL YESHUA RETURNS. And you can't blame true Christians for it - there's so few, and they are oppressed and persecuted same as ever since Jesus walked on earth. Oh, "christians" will certainly face judgment.... for their own lives. The world, Yahweh Judges. The ekklesia, do what Yahweh says. Yeshua's sheep hear His voice. The world doesn't, yet.

As for the kingdoms of this world presently being under control of Satan: You’ve pulled out a verse and missed out on the events coming after Mt 4: Satan has been bound by Christ’s life, death and resurrection (Mt 12:22-32, in particular verse 29/ Luke 10:18 /John 12:31-32/ Hebrews 2:14-18/1 John 3:7-10). Now the risen Christ has been given “all authority in heaven and on earth”(Mt 28:18). So if our earthly kingdoms are evil, it is not Satan who is to blame, but us for not obeying Christ as we should. As for the Lion of Judah: If I remember right “the Lion of Judah” is mentioned exactly once in the Book of Revelation: in chapter 5, which in my Bible is aptly titled “The Lion is a Lamb”. It is the lamb that is spoken of henceforth. As for Armageddon: that’s mentioned once in Rev. 16 and I do hope it’s not one of these words where you begin to read Revelations literally again and place it in actual Megiddo : “Har Magedon is the symbol of every battle in which, when the need is greatest and believers are oppressed, the Lord suddenly reveals His power in the interest of His distressed people and defeats the enemy. When Sennacherib's 185,000 are slain by the angel of Jehovah, that is a shadow of the final Har-Magedon. When God grants a little handful of Maccabees a glorious victory over an enemy which far outnumbers it, that is a type of Har-Magedon. But the real, the great, the final Har Magedon coincides with the time of satan’s little season. Then the world, under the leadership of Satan, anti-Christian government, and anti-Christian religion – the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet – is gathered against the Church for the final battle, and the need is greatest; when God's children, oppressed on every side, cry for help; then suddenly, dramatically, Christ will appear on the clouds of glory to deliver his people, that is Har-Magedon. It is for this reason that Har-Magedon is the sixth bowl. The seventh is the judgment-day.” (William Hendriksen, More Than Conquerors, pp. 196–197, quoted from: http://www.biblepreschurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Revelation_Handbook_2012.pdf) So no worries, the message is: good will prevail however bleak things may look to us, love, junobet P.S.: you may of course claim that Satan has been rereleased already, but again: no worries, we won't need a rapture, we just need to remain steadfast.

So should we treat this passage as fictitious? (Rev 20: 4-6). 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received hismark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

Read the Book of Revelation again, Ezra. Nowhere does it tell you that Christ reigns for a thousand years. In fact – just like multiple other texts in the NT – it tells you that Christ will rule forever and ever (Rev. 11:15). Now who is it that reigns for (symbolic) 1000 years? It’s “the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4b) So it’s all those Christian martyrs who had resisted the temptations of the empire. They weren’t raptured, they died and were found saintly enough to go to heaven immediately, before judgement day. And while their souls reign with Christ for a symbolic thousand years and while the Church fulfills its mission, Christ Himself rules forever. And yes, during this (symbolic) 1000 year reign we shall experience tribulations, just like the martyrs experienced tribulations. There is no cheap ticket out in a pre-tribulation rapture, Ezra. As Christians we are expected to be willing to suffer gladly for Christ: “Consider it pure joy, my brothers, when you are involved in various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. But you must let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.” (James 1:2-4) “Dear friends, do not be surprised by the fiery ordeal that is taking place among you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. Instead, because you are participating in the sufferings of the Messiah,keep on rejoicing, so that you may be glad and shout for joy when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of the Messiah,you are blessed, for the glorious Spirit of God is resting on you.” (1 Peter 4:12-14) We are to take up our cross and bear it, but we need not fret because his yolk is light. Love, junobet

Actually, I did not mean your post. I’m just too stupid to handle the quote-function here. But I’m sad to hear that your Anglican priests could not explain scripture to you and let you fall prey to what I’d consider false teachers. As I said: the rapture is not Biblical but a 19th century invention by Darby, that has to be willfully read into the texts, whilst omitting all their context. And I’m pretty sure that all those end-time crazed rapture-ready Christians don’t read the Book of Revelations literally, because otherwise they would not continuously try to interpret political events of their respective days into it. Taking the Bible 100% literally you’d just enjoy Revelation’s literal horror-film-features such as seven headed beasts with ten horns, dragons, locusts with human faces (…) + you’d end up believing that the earth actually stands on pillars and has 4 corners . So all in all I’m really sorry, but if you read the Bible like you’d read the manual for your TV, you won’t get very far. It’s just not that kind of book. Praying for you, junobet.

Remember dear friend: faith goes beyond logic not against it, because both are given by God. And when we study the Bible we should do it both with our brain and our heart. God bless you, too, junobet

Pulling a verse out of context does not establish Bible truth. When Christ said that His Kingdom is not of this world, that was absolutely true and correct in that context. The kingdoms of this world are presently under the control of Satan (Mt 4:8,9). When Christ came as the Lamb of God, He came to take away the sin of the world. However, when He comes as the Lion of the tribe of Judah, He will establish His true Kingdom on this earth and rule with a rod of iron. Please note that this will be after the battle of Armageddon. Notice what Scripture says in Revelation 11:15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. We are definitely not in any Millennium right now, since the 7th angel will sound his trumpet during the Great Tribulation.

It is still the Word of God. I don't see how we can say it does not apply one way or the other. He is coming once again, and when He does we will meet Him in the air. If that is what scripture says, who am I to argue with it? Let us be very careful not to twist scripture so that it appeals to our logic. We are supposed to renew our minds in scripture by believing in it in faith. Faith does not deal with logic, it embraces the revelation of God's Word. The letter killeth but the Spirit gives life. God bless you.

uumm That's not Amillennialism.

There are many gays among those in the Anglican Church. I have worked with many Anglican chaplains.

No. Jesus never told us that following Him would be a walk in the park. We are to shine His light into this world and I’d be the first to admit that so far we haven’t done that good a job at that. We'd better up our game, love, junobet

8. IDENTITY OF THOSE REMOVED FROM THE EARTH AND THOSE REMAINING ON THE EARTH RAPTURE--Believers are removed; unbelievers remain (1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-53; John 14:3). SECOND ADVENT--Unbelievers are removed; believers remain (Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:34-37). See Matthew 24:38 where the unbelieving world in Noah's day was taken away in judgment. 9. Amen Enoob! True too, what Ezra says , Lutheran is one step away from Catholic, as is Episcopalian/Anglican so they share some false teachings with that same group. The change happens when an individual reads the Bible for themselves and God willing they find scripture that makes the Light of the Holy Spirit of Grace burst forth upon their soul & they leave what never fed them with the whole Word of God. You got me a little confused here: It goes without saying that I’d say your rapture-quotes here tell us about no such thing as the rapture, but I thought that Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-37 were also among your main pet-verses that allegedly tell about the rapture. And now you tell me that being taken away might not be such a good thing and being left behind could be preferable?

If we are indeed living in the Millennium then it has to be an extremely evil Millennium, but that is not what Scripture reveals about the true Millennium. Can you so why the Lutheran concept is preposterous?

The reason Lutherans don’t believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture is that such belief is unbiblical. As seen in the post above to support this rogue 19th century eschatology one must string verses together that were picked out of their context and understand phrases literally that are clearly not meant to be understood literally, such as the “thousand years” mentioned in Rev. 20. In my humble opinion we’re right in those 1000 years and will be until their ideal completion. Meanwhile we have a job to do (Mt 28:16-20). Some may want to call the Apostle Paul confused, but my Church deems him rather trustworthy. If I believe him I can happily say that I am of Abraham’s seed, even though my biological ancestors were probably all gentiles: Gal. 3:29: “If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” So yes, whenever I sing my favourite Christmas Carol “Daughter Zion, oh rejoice!” I know that it’s me and the entire Church that should rejoice. The OT Covenants have been fulfilled in Christ and we are part of the new. As for anti-Semitism: Sadly it’s true that Christianity has had anti-Jewish sentiments ever since Jewish Christians were kicked out of the Synagogues and that the reverberating of these negative sentiments in the Gospel of John for example, has led to much anti-Semitism, especially among Protestants. So I’m glad that my Church just recently took the upcoming 500th anniversary of reformation as a reason to again distance itself from Luther’s anti-Jewish remarks. (https://www.ekd.de/english/News-news_2015_11_11_ekd_synod_distances_itself_from_luthers_anti_jewish_stance.html) It’s Christian Zionists that are among todays’ biggest anti-Semites: the events they predict and long for will make the holocaust look lame: “"The Jews die or convert. As a Jew, I can't feel very comfortable with the affections of somebody who looks forward to that scenario," says Gershom Gorenberg, who knows that scenario well. He's the author of the "End of Days," a book about those Christian evangelicals who choose to read the Bible literally. "They don't love real Jewish people. They love us as characters in their story, in their play, and that's not who we are, and we never auditioned for that part, and the play is not one that ends up good for us."” http://www.cbsnews.com/news/falwell-brands-mohammed-a-terrorist/

Very well said Steven . I agree. I am shaking my head more and more these days on what I have been seeing. Rather sad if you ask me. It is refreshing and encouraging to see these kind of posts which are rare.

I certainly am amazed at the inability of the thought process of these to distinguish the division or difference in this doctrine: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispensa/dispch13.htm snip 5. VISIBILITY RAPTURE--Christ seen only by the church (1 Thess. 4:17; 1 John 3:2). SECOND ADVENT--Christ seen by every eye (Rev. 1:7; Matthew 24:24-27). 6. LOCATION RAPTURE--in the air (1 Thess. 4:17). SECOND ADVENT--on the earth (Zech. 14:4; Acts 1:11). 7. ASSOCIATED JUDGMENT RAPTURE--the judgment seat of Christ (2 Tim. 4:1,8; 1 Pet. 1:7). SECOND ADVENT--destruction of the wicked armies (Rev. 19:17-19) and the judgment of living nations (Matthew 25:31-46). 8. IDENTITY OF THOSE REMOVED FROM THE EARTH AND THOSE REMAINING ON THE EARTH RAPTURE--Believers are removed; unbelievers remain (1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-53; John 14:3). SECOND ADVENT--Unbelievers are removed; believers remain (Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:34-37). See Matthew 24:38 where the unbelieving world in Noah's day was taken away in judgment. 9. PURPOSE OF CHRIST'S COMING RAPTURE--to receive His bride (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17). SECOND ADVENT--to receive His kingdom (Luke 19:22; Rev. chapters 19-20) 10. THE BODIES OF LIVING BELIEVERS RAPTURE--church age believers are raised (those who have died) and are translated and "changed" (those who are living) with the result that they have immortal, resurrection bodies (1 Cor. 15:52-53; 1 Thess. 4:17). SECOND ADVENT--believers who survive the tribulation enter the kingdom in natural bodies (Matthew 25:23), and these believers will eventually bear children and re-populate the earth. For these many reasons, it is necessary to distinguish two phases of our Lord's second coming: 1) THE FIRST PHASE involving the Lord's coming for His church and taking His believers to heaven (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18); 2) THE SECOND PHASE, taking place about 7 years later, involving the Lord's coming to earth as the world's Judge and conquering King (Rev. 19:11-21).

The reason Lutherans may not believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture is because they are one-step removed from Roman Catholicism. Because of Augustine, both Catholics and Protestants (which includes Lutherans) chose to become Amillennial. This also is a manifestation of Replacement Theology. The Church was confused with Israel, and in their minds the Church replaced Israel. As far as European Christians were concerned, God was finished with Israel, and that could have also been one of the reasons for Anti-Semitism in Europe for centuries. Lutherans are not too happy about Dispensationalism, which teaches that God has an eternal plan for the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body) and ALSO an eternal plan for the kingdom of Israel on earth (not the state of Israel as we know it, and which rejects Messiah Yeshua ha Mashiach).

I was raised Lutheran and never believed amil nor pre-trib. Didn't even hear much of such until decades later in the lawless groups((where repentance wasn't needed to get saved - the "God blesses us all no matter what " crowd )). Later leaned amil was designed on purpose to counter Scripture by the world church. That entirely fits their design too. However, without revelation from the Father in heaven , no one can know anyway.((even that Jesus is the Messiah)). So Seek the Father, Prayerfully at all times. He is the One To Trust. Everybody we know might be liars, and wrong, but the Father in heaven can be Trusted Always.

They are not Post tribulation Joe. They are amillennial. That is very different.

In response to your idea about "Hebrew roots" please note: 1. The Messiah and the Gospel went out to the Jews first, in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and throughout the Roman Empire. The Jews -- by and large -- rejected Yeshua ha Maschiah and brought judgement upon themselves. The Gentiles then gladly received the Gospel, and Christianity was established in Gentile lands while the Jews turned to rabbinic Judaism. 2. God chose to have the New Testament written in Greek, even though all the writers were Jews and would have preferred Hebrew. That is a lesson in itself, in that the New Covenant (Testament) would be for the whole world while partial blindness would come upon the Jews. 3. "Jesus" is now the Saviour of the world, and we are to bring sinners to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is no longer just Yeshua ha Mashiach for the Jews. He was to be A LIGHT TO LIGHTEN THE GENTILES, and the whole world has heard the name "Jesus" (not Yeshua). 4. The New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) and God says to you and to me "There is no going back to Moses after Christ". Read the epistle to the Hebrews (which generally gets brushed off by Messianics). 5. Peter while writing to the Jewish believers scattered throughout the Roman Empire calls them "Christians" not "disciples of Yeshua". Why? Because God abolished the difference between Jew and Gentile at the cross. It was called "the middle wall of partition" and that wall was removed, just like the veil in the Temple was torn in two.