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There is a long-standing debate/ argument/ disagreement about this on all the forums. No one , not once, has "proven" a forum is more edifying than ... ... ... ... (pick an example) ... ... ... Note your own word "then people CAN SEE the love of Christ ....." where DO people (the general public/ watchers) SEE Ekklesia laying down their lives for one another AND keeping all the Word of Yahuweh as Yahushua (Jesus) Says ? (and not allowing pagan ideas freely ...) ... ...

What did Jesus do to the disciples who "watched" the weather and were scared the boat would capsize? Meanwhile, Jesus slept. Rhymes with wept! He rebuked them. (or chastised them), for their lack of faith .....

When the origin of something is the devil, the fruit of it is the devil's. No debate required about that.

Fake news ? Watch Jesus . Watch the Father in Heaven. Follow the Shepherd. Wherever He Goes.

If someone is a drug addict, or in porn, or a greedy person, or gay or an adulterer or catholic or other idolator, and they turn over a new leaf, they are then therefore, by definition, saved from that specific wickedness. How is that a serious error ? They end up better (free ) , and then perhaps the other unbelief in their life can be addressed without the previous addictive sin.

Why imagine it ? It happens daily.....

Who do you know who MEDITATES day and night on TORAH as Yahuweh Says ? Christ said this to EVIL MEN. Those EVIL MEN thought that by doing what you say, they could find eternal life. (they could not, as Jesus told them). Jesus again said "the word of faith is already near you (Ekklesia, born again ones following Jesus), even in your mouth...." and that even if you have only the faith the size of a mustard seed, you will speak to a mountain to be cast into the sea, and it will be ... I don't think Jesus then told them to ask for more faith. Apparently not. Not only generally missing, but altogether missing in most places. This is just as Scripture says clearly today, and yesterday , and forever. Do you really truly believe the followers of Jesus no longer have "that power" ? If so, keep seeking Yahuweh's Kingdom, and He Will Reveal the Truth as He Promises in His Word.

In the New Testament, those who are described as Ekklesia, born again ones, set apart by Yahuweh for Himself, agree on everything Yahuweh Reveals to them, and walk in union with the Son and with the Father as written. They did not suffer 100 different stories, and would not permit any private interpretation of Scripture nor of prophecy , but instead trusted the Father, and relied on Him, and His Faithfulness to reveal everything concerning salvation as Jesus said He is well pleased so to do. (to/for little children) ....

I think "the mind", mostly concerning and by (a choice of) the will , must be brought subject to Jesus, renewed in Him, but that salvation is revealed first in spirit, by the Father, Abba Yahuweh, as Jesus says - "The Father is well pleased to REVEAL SALVATION to little children" (and to HIDE SALVATION from the educated ones), and "unless a person becomes as a little child, they will never see the Kingdom of Heaven" .... Corrie ten Boom's book "Common Sense Not Needed" is a wonderful work for those who are challenged, and for those who seek such understanding ....

"Once we understand God's purpose for our life we have unlimited potential to advance His Kingdom." Is "potential" ever given in the Creator's Word as a goal to seek for, as something to desire or to reach for or to try to gain or achieve ? (I don't remember it being so, and wonder if it is 'humanistic', or 'of the flesh' ? )

Jesus often told the people : "Turn To Yahweh" because "His Kingdom is Now Here, At Hand" ...... Everyone (unless there were any exceptions, and Jesus would know this, ) is and was in the kingdom of darkness, unaware, not in the LIGHT, living in the midst of this pernicious generation, and those whom the Father gave to Jesus listened.

Just like the thumb and fingers and hand, do not pick up even a coffee cup or a glass of water, without the wrist, forearm, elbow and shoulder ... so also the body of Christ with each member, living stones joined together by the Master Himself.... not in brik and mortar strctures, but Ekklesia (not 'church members') living alive in union daily with and in Christ Jesus ....

No, there is no 'since', and no observing it 'happening' at all. Anywhere. The reason scientists at all accept something is because they are in love with the world, and the world loves them. Those who seek the truth, do not accept what the worldly scientists or professionals say about anything, unless they 'happen' to agree with the truth, and then only about that.

The Ekklesia are resurrected with Jesus to eternal life. Most men are resurrected to judgment/ destruction. So? "We", is a "few", a small group on the narrow road to life, compared to the "many" who stay on the road to destruction.

Be alert. Be aware. Be cautious. The false gospel has been propagated for so long, with much deception and greed, it would take a complete life change to turn to Yahuweh (God) in truth, trusting in Jesus for real.....

footnote for anyone who is able to look into the truth: Pasteur, like Darwin, went after power, popularity, and money. Thus, even while Pasteur was still alive, he faked a lot of things and published a lot of errors, which got accepted, again because of love of money (other men and businesses seeking and desiring more power and money, denied the truth, and accepted 'the world' and its lies in lieu of saving their own souls ). I think a key to finding out , starting to find out, might be found by searching for the fishbowl - "germ 'theory'" vs terrain theory. The one who came before Pasteur, and proved with tests and testing all that Pasteur opposed, in fact with tests and testing that could then and could and can today be repeated around the world - the tests prove it every time - for those not interested in money or power or popularity (since the truth , as written in Scripture, is actively opposed everywhere by those who desire money, power and popularity) .....

Why ? The truth is greatly outnumbered here, much much much more than the Apostle Paul and the Ekklesia were outnumbered at/in Athens in the New Testament. The 'official definitions'. explanations, etc, are all wrong and in error - regardless of who argues what , where and when. i.e. "the correct definition" is in error, as are the incorrect definitions ! (any definition "of the flesh"/ not from Yahuweh (the Creator) ).... Thus, arguing anything about any definition results in more error, promoting more error, leaving out the truth , Scripture, from/of God and Jesus. It would be cleared up at once, but only for those who know and understand John 6:63, which leaves out most of the world and all of those who trust in doctrines and traditions of men and of demons. Without revelation from Yahuweh (God), the truth remains unknown to all those who support ungodliness , even though it is plainly written in Scripture, as even the Scribes and the Pharisees read the Scriptures in Hebrew and later in Greek, but still continued to oppose Jesus and Jesus' pupils (the Apostles and the Ekklesia). The Father in heaven is praised by Jesus out loud, for "revealing salvation to little children" because it is the Father's Good Pleasure so to do, AND for HIDING SALVATION, from the educated ones (and obviously from all the false teachers and false prophets and false religions)..... unless one becomes as a little child, they will never see the Kingdom of Heaven.

Amen - it (the rc practice, doctrine and teaching) is indeed an abomination directly opposed to Scripture and is from an enemy of Yahuweh(G0d) and brings death to those who trust or allow or believe it. "enough" ? So likewise leaving out Jesus' Own Explanation ? Thus not gaining understanding of the Reality ? Or do you really truly believe Jesus would make Himself an abominable transgressor, a sinner, doing what His Father in Heaven FORBIDS ? Likewise, 'when it comes to this passage', you chose also to believe that a transgression is being promoted by Jesus Himself !?!? Astonishing ! And IMPOSSIBLE!

I think sometimes over 100 bots. But, so? Just as in Athens in the New Testament account, there is a great deal of idolatry and ungodliness, much more than there are people interested in serving Yahuweh (God) by grace thru faith in Yahushua (Jesus). There's rarely if ever a forum with many Ekklesia present, being open to the whole world, most are as it was in Athens - and for a while in Athens they listened to the Apostle(s) and the good news gospel of Jesus, but then over all , as other cities, they drove out the messengers of God, rejecting God's Message, and rejecting Jesus.

Amen. Repentance, and truth from Yahuweh also.

.... hmmm..... Yahuweh does not enforce the TORAH/ LAW ? ...... I think the other post in another thread agrees with this .... I asked if ANYPLACE He Did enforce the Law, and you didn't show anywhere that He did, but sidestepped the question, I think.....

You missed the point entirely. Death is the penalty for sin, but where is the TORAH, or the LAW, "enforced" ? 'Read for yourself' and see .... God did not put speed traps out, and give tickets, fines or warnings to enforce TORAH / HIS WORD..... Everyone who wants to break the law, is able to go ahead and break the law..... and remember what they say later in the Bible ? - 'God has not done anything about anything for hundreds of years' (i.e. not enforced keeping the TORAH / LAW), so we can do whatever we want to ......

What the Bible does say is what is important, not what the news, or scientists, nor what society nor mankind says. Thus, see somewhere in the Bible what the Bible says about the temperature increasing until men curse God (instead of crying/calling for help)....

Perhaps you could show in the Bible where the TORAH is ENFORCED through penalty ? (OT and NT) I do not believe it is.