Joulre2abba

The unreceptiveness of sinners is due to the god of this world blinding their minds (2Cor.4:4). The truth is that the inner-man is dead due to sin, like an electric light that is turned off. All elements are there but there's no connection to the source of energy (God who is the light of this world). Therefore to sinners it's darkness, and the sinful nature is unrighteousness. It takes being born again, the light of God entering in (2Cor.4:6), therefore we are translated, transferred out of the authority of darkness and into the kingdom of God's dear Son. Whereby we proclaim the excellencies of Him who called us out of darkness and into His marvelous light (1Pet.2:9) The word Hades is the Greek word for the Hebrew word Sheol, and the English word for both is Hell. So then, there's no disagreement (as you implied) that sinners go to the same place as the devil and his demons, which includes the Beast = antichrist, and the False Prophet.

Daniel 12:2 didn't pretend to speak to demons, so I never said that it did. That makes you arguing over it all on your own. Col.2:14-15 .. to triumph over the demons through the cross.. is their eternal defeat. And therefore 1Cor.2:8 shows their lack of insight. The rulers and authorities in that text is a reference to Eph.6:12. But I assumed that you knew this. Pardon me. These show what I bring to them and that you have nothing to bring to it but an empty criticism.

I pointed to Rev.20:10 regarding the eternal torment factor. There are other verses such as Mat.25:41 which specifically puts sinners in the same punishment as the devil and his demonic host, 46 speaks of sinners ; 2Thes.1:8-9 speaks of sinners paying the penalty of eternal destruction (in hell). The wording of Jn.5:29 is strongly similar to Dan.12:2. The institutions are the works of the humans so it's not as if the people themselves aren't punished. This ignores my previous given biblical text from Jesus of the rich man in torment in hell, which points out that Christians must not accept the world's idea of death as a physical cessation of awareness. In every response I gave one, as you have here, or more throughout my post as a whole. So in saying that I gave no other at all in the Bible is a gross inaccuracy. Concerning your offered text, Rev.17:8.. as already stated in this post, 2Thes.1:8-9 speaks of sinners in the same fate as the Beast. For that matter you have not given any prooftext that refutes the texts that I have given. As it is, the new testament is an updated revelation of the old. Yes, which brings me to the question of why you fault me on doing just that. I was making a point regarding your assertions that there's nothing in the new testament that would change what the old testament said. What does matter is what the whole Bible actually says.

I appeal to the new testament texts as does the apostle Paul or other writers of the epistles... because we are all living under the new covenant of God through Jesus Christ and not under the old covenant as if there was no new covenant. The new testament explains more accurately through greater revelation than that of the old. But perhaps you prefer to avoid what's in the new because it doesn't agree with your premise.

You are going to get responses from Christians of different denominational theologic eschatology (did I invent a new phrase?) What would help is to read Revelation with the understanding that chapters 1-5 are sequential, then compare the opening seals of the scroll with the bulletined topics in chapter 6.. then that expands to portray the events in a thematic manner. The themes echo what Daniel saw as from a great distance, while John saw from a closer distance. However, some parts that Daniel and John saw were/are magnified for more detail. The thematic approach is evident in that the Second Coming is spoken of in different chapters (6, 16, 19). So make use of the numbered chapters and verses for reference purposes only. Do not assume that the numbered chapters imply sequence. It might help to read from a Bible that doesn't use numbers for chapter, verse at all. It's a matter of personal preference as to how many or how few Bible versions you use. Go with what helps you to understand the topics, and context best.. however, keep the King James, New King James handy to compare and stay on track. The New Living paraphrased will function to get through the speed bumps in the Elizabethan English. Be ready to use research online when you read. The books of Daniel and Revelation are heavy with Jewish idioms so familiarize yourself with them. But don't get overwhelmed or discouraged if you don't get something. At the risk of sounding biast, it's also highly required for the reader to be dispensational and pre-tribulational. That is the only way that any of the Biblical books of endtime events' vast puzzles will work out right.

To the first part, Daniel is speaking of the same thing as the apostle Paul wrote of in 1 Thes.4:13-17. .. the dead rise alive, and those who are alive .. they both are changed to immortal with glorified bodies. To the second part, Daniel is speaking of the same thing as the apostle John wrote of in Rev.19:20-21, 20:1-3, 10-15. The verses in Revelations say otherwise. Hell wouldn't be much to shun if it was only oblivion. .. what salvation would there be from that? Why would God launch a huge campaign in sending His own son to deliver mankind from that sort of end? The word Hell being synonymous with punishment was not by accident or someone's mere overactive imagination. The shame of the demons being defeated by the triumph of the cross is eternal explains why it says If the rulers of this world had understood, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (Col.2:14-15; 1 Cor.2:8) Everlasting punishment in Hell is the final judgment, while the contempt from the living is upon those who got their just recompense from God. There are two deaths that the Bible speaks of. The living death due to sin (Eph.2:1) and the death of the body. What Jesus spoke of concerning Lazarus in the upper part of Hell and the rich man in the lower part of Hell is evident that sinners are very much conscious of their punishment. The word "horror", "abhorrence", "aversion".. is also "reproach". Job 31:3 "Is not calamity for the unrighteous, and disaster for the workers of iniquity?" Concerning Is.66:24.. The worm shall not die and the fire not be quenched because both feed on those who rebelled while they were alive on the earth. Though physically alive they were spiritually dead by choice and without God in the world. Thus their punishment is torment in Hell without God, sharing in the punishment of satan and all of his demons.. who remain in Hell eternally.

Having Jesus walk at your side is like John described. 1Jn.1:1 "What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes.. .. concerning the word of life." There not being anyone else around represents your personal experience. The crosses represent when you heard the gospel. When Jesus left you. It's like what Paul said in 2 cor. 5:16. "We know him after the flesh no more." Jesus didn't really leave you, it's just that he now is within you.

I suggest that you rehearse your hearing the gospel, you rehearse your repentance, you rehearse your accepting Jesus into your heart, and re-state that you are saved. Look up scriptures that give assurance on those points. Here are just a few (Jn.3:7; Rm.5:8; Acts 2:22; Rm.10:10; Heb.7:25; 2Tm.1:9; Ps.62:1). I suggest that you make up your mind not to quit or give up and so don't even entertain quitting or giving up. And especially don't rely on your feelings because they can give you a phony register. They will tell you that you don't feel saved so you must not be saved. In that case what you need to do is declare your salvation that has been according to the scriptures. Declare that God's Word is true so any feelings to the contrary don't count. When the enemy tries to convince you that you're not saved. Tell him that he's a liar and the truth is not in him.

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There are a multitude of "Christians" who "repented", and even did miracles , and they are still told , on JUDGMENT DAY (way way too late to be saved), "be gone from Me" The new testament verse (2 Tm.2:19) says "the Lord knows those that are His." And John wrote (Jn.6:37) "to all who come to Him He will in no wise cast out." From Mat.7 Jesus said to (vs 15) a false prophet "be gone from Me, I never knew you." That means that he was not saved. In all that he stated that he'd done.. prophesying, miracles (vs 17) rotten fruit from a rotten tree. It doesn't say that the man repented at all. So he and those like him.. the false prophet that the apostle Paul dealt with (Acts 13:6) he sought to turn a man away from faith. The apostle Paul called him "Son of the devil, enemy of all righteousness.. full of deceit and fraud." If he didn't ever repent, then he will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and Jesus will say to him.. "Depart from Me you who practice lawlessness." because he (Acts 13:10) "would not cease to make crooked the straight way of the Lord." But Christians who repent and desire (Ps.5:8) to walk the straight way of the Lord.. they will stand before the Bema Seat, Rm.14:10-12 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." 1 Cor.3:11-13 "For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work." The Bema Seat is for believers to receive rewards. These crowns are identified as the Everlasting Crown (Victory) in 1 Cor 9:25, Crown of the Soul Winner in Phil 4:1 and 1 Thes 2:19, Crown of Righteousness in 2 Tim 4:8, Crown of Life in Jms 1:12 and Rev 2:10, and the Crown of Glory in 1 Peter 5:4. The Crown of Victory is for believers who overcome the temptations of the devil. No believers there are told "be gone from Me."

Paul's "out of body experience" (which he does not even speak as happening to him) in going up to the third heaven, happened most likely or more likely when he'd been beat up and left for dead. That is a different occasion than when he got saved while on the road to Damascus. In both text verses [salvation] and [out of body] they are not mentioned in connection with the other.

You were talking about "forever", I was talking about "a lifetime". I've already stated what I have done and will do in continuously repenting throughout my lifetime.. as all Christians will do while in this untrained flesh. The sinful nature has been already "dealt with" according to Biblical theology. The born again person in Christ is a new creature, the old "sin nature" has passed away when we were crucified with Christ. Never the less it still has a voice for as long as our behavior patterns and thought patterns are left unrenewed and not made subject to the nature of Christ that we are to daily partake of. Therefore we walk by faith in the Son of God and His continuous working in us that we do those things that are pleasing in God's sight. We, of ourselves cannot achieve such a task. We are to daily carry the cross and daily discipline our selves to conform to God's will for us as His children in walking worthy of the Lord. Even so, we make mistakes for which we have need to repent (apologize) unto God for our misdoings. With Jesus right there as our advocate and our righteousness.. our guarantee to mature us as we are obedient in faith that Christ be in us, our hope of glory as we are progressively transformed from glory to glory. But, yes.. not until the rapture.. shall the flesh be changed to glorification. At which time the sinful nature fully, completely and totally disappears.

It's best not to jump to conclusions.. the phrase "no matter what name you give Him" is generic.. allowing it to be interpreted by any Christian to whom he addresses his post. My interpretation is regarding the matter of using the Hebrew name "Yeshua".. or the Spanish name pronounced 'Hei-sous' (hei is one letter of the name YHVH) but still spelled 'Jesus'. In Greek it's "Iēsous". In old English Bibles it was " Iesu". There is no other name, but the pronunciation is varied according to language and culture. The NAME means Salvation, for He is to save people from their sins. The discussion board presumably has any number of believers who come from a background of other languages with English as their second.

Forever involves when we are no longer in our flesh and therefore glorified immortal, therefore we have no sinful nature to be capable of sinning. So "lifetime" is correct.

I've read it a number of times since I got saved. What part of it do you refer to? And what connection does it have with my post that you responded to?

My repentance that brings salvation for a relationship with God is a one time thing. My repentance for subsequent daily sins to stay in fellowship is for a lifetime.

The apostle Paul in the new testament states.. that salvation is becoming a child of God (Gal.3:26; John 1:12) to be blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph.1:3). At salvation we are raised up to sit together with the Lord Jesus in heavenly places (Eph.2:5-6) God counts us to be there already. So of course we will go to heaven at death or at the rapture, whichever comes first.

? I mean things like this one (Acts 22:6-8): And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. 7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. I mean this sort of encounters, when God is talking individually to someone. However, the apostle Paul didn't have any such encounter again.. because he relied on communicating with God through God's word and prayer. That encounter on the road to Damascus occurred while Saul (as he was called then) was on his way to persecute believers in Jesus, and put them in jail without hope of getting out. .. so Jesus appeared as the Lord Advocate General of the Church.. He appeared as the Great Shepherd of the sheep in the way that shepherd David encountered wolves, ready to do what he must to protect the sheep that he was in charge of. So it's best not to pray to have an encounter like Saul did on the road to Damascus. Our encounters, as sheep of the Shepherd is to be as Jesus described.. "My sheep hear My voice." That was the case when Paul said that God spoke to him saying "My grace is sufficient for you, My strength is made perfect in your weakness." When you hear from inside, it is the same that Jesus experienced. He said "As I hear (of the Father) so I speak and so I do." That way is a far more intimate experience than what Saul experienced.

It would seem that is what you're doing. .. using allegory when it's not indicated. God individually talking to us is done through His word and our prayers. How terrible it would be to have a relationship of love with someone who doesn't communicate.

The answer concerning your salvation is remembering that you did repent of your sins and got saved. That is established in 2 Cor.5:17-18,21; Col.2:6 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ. Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him. I'm not sure what you mean about "praying for assistance". God has made available His word, His promises to you. God has said "My son, attend to My word. Incline your ears to My sayings. Do not let them depart from your sight. Keep them in the midst of your heart. For they are life to those who find them." (Prov.4:20-22) Peter said in 1 Pet.2:2 "Like newborn babes, desire the pure milk of God's word that you may grow in respect to salvation." Nothing will change until you begin. It says in Jer.1:12 "God watches over His word to perform it." God's word is the building blocks, the material needed for God to do His work in us. Welcome to the club, every Christian life is daily asking for forgiveness, it's par for the course no matter how mature we get in God's word.. what does change is that we somewhere along the line don't have to repent so frequently. That is called maturity. No one attains to it automatically right off the bat. Don't let yourself be irritated by the process of growth in Christ and His word. But rejoice that your in training and cheerfully look forward to achievements one step at a time. With whatever mental issues.. give yourself some slack. But the feeling of peace will come by confessing appropriate verses of peace upon yourself. Don't think that it will drop on you like an apple off a tree, but go and pick it. It says in Gal.5:23 that peace is a fruit.. given to you. Salvation is a gift, a present given by God's grace to you. If you heard of God's love to you and accepted Jesus as your Savior, then you are saved already. You are worrying.. that means that your heart is not hardened. But you are worrying rather than reminding yourself that God loves you. As long as you say what God's word says about you, worry can't get your attention.. for as often as you say that God loves you, worry has to shut up. All you need do is apologize to your loving heavenly Father for not talking to Him. And apologize for letting those shortcomings pile up like unpaid bills. Then, even though you might not feel any different.. be grateful with thanksgiving and tell Him "Praise You o Lord for you are good and Your mercy endures forever." Begin every apology to God with that, and finish off your conversing with that. At any time that you feel sinful or angry.. remember that God loves you by telling Him "Praise You o Lord for you are good and Your mercy endures forever." Every time that you notice a worried thought, tell God "Praise You o Lord for you are good and Your mercy endures forever." Yep. Make those words of thanksgiving your new rut and rejoice in it every day.

My post was concerning former wars. It's documented that more wars have been secular rather than religious. That documentation did not imply that there have not been religiously motivated wars. I also mentioned in my previous post the upcoming war at Armageddon, and I also stated in another post of the continuing wars in the Middle East which in particular religiously motivated. Rest assured, there isn't any kidding of oneself going on at all.

Unfortunately it is too easy to be misunderstood by others who take issue with what I had not said. For the record, I am not condoning war, however I am not ashamed that my grandfather was in World War ll, and each of my three older brothers were required to participate in the military.. Navy, Air Force respectively, the last of those three participated in the Army at Vietnam. I thank God that none were casualties. They fought and were duly honored. And yes we should all pray for peace, but war still occurred after 9/11. And still others in the Middle East. For those who've shed blood since Abel.. the crucifixion of Christ covers over that for His blood is greater than that of Abel. However, according to my understanding.. at the Great White Throne, God's vengeance will be upon satan who kills, and the armies of antichrist who will kill and martyr the saints of God during the Tribulation.

Atheists are spiritually dead, even as all of us once were. The biblical answer is that they be made alive unto God, even as we all have been. That is accomplished by prayer for the unsaved, that they hear the gospel and believe in their heart and make confession with their mouth unto salvation. If you speak to an atheist about God and they still don't believe, then you know that they need to hear the gospel from another Christian laboring in the field of souls. The thing is, don't sorrow so much, but rather praise God because of (1 Tm.2:4) that the person will be saved but he/she just doesn't know it yet.

I don't understand the question. It seems that you have used the word "spirit of Christ" as if it's separate from what happens in being saved. Could you clarify?

I beg to differ.. most wars were not religious in motivation, look it up. It's true that most big powerful nations and empires are interested in expanding their territory.. as was Briton to make our country their "Alaska or Hawaii". The war(s) that America fought against Briton was to gain freedom of religion which is obvious in it's importance, so not all wars are bad in their purpose.. aside from the actual casualties that result. Today America is the leading nation that declares the gospel, sparking in other nations to do likewise. In the Second Coming there will be the final battle at Armageddon.. when Jesus Christ Himself fights warfare against the army of the antichrist. Only after that will weapons of war be repurposed into agricultural purposes. Don't ask for wars to stop before the due time. But support God's plan and will be done.