Alive

I suggest that folks read a couple books by Stephen Meyers. 'The Signature in the Cell" and then the follow up which was a response to rebuttals of 'Signature'---called 'Darwin's Doubt'. Personally, I don't no believe in the theory of evolution. I do understand adaptation within 'kind', which is entirely different. I am convinced that everything including biological forms are experiencing devolution in fact. This is due to the law of entropy. In biological forms, one tool of entropy is mutation. Nearly all mutation is deleterious. Recent studies have even show that the 'rate' of mutation in the human genome is increasing in each generation. Note that word 'rate'. This is important. Death reigns and is effective in many ways....entropy.

I tend to agree with the 'gap theory'. I also strongly suspect that there was a prior civilization of man before Adam.

And of course it is possible that those scriptures speak of a literal entire earth and all peoples--however there are many places where such language is used and it clearly wasn't. This is why I say that I am not entirely convinced.

Praise the Lord--no worries. I would say, however, that the saints in a local expression of the body of Christ do recognize an anointing. The Spirit within hears the Spirit and there is a sense of harmony. I have described this as being much like tuning a guitar. When one string is brought to the same note as another, there is a very pleasant identifiable 'likeness'. The Spirit bears witness to the Spirit that it is of God. Senses exercised. This takes time, but is a very real thing. This is not limited to teaching or prophecy, but any one might speak in a gathering and it be the Lord energizing that 'word'. When two or more are gathered.....He promised--no He emphatically declared that He is there. The question becomes; do we believe what we believe?

Yup--if pinned down--I agree. It seems to me that what Paul described happens when the Lord returns to set up His 1000 year reign. I am not convinced that the great tribulation will be global, either. I believe there is room for seeing it local to Israel and the surrounding area.

Paul sure did teach the churches back then about the so called rapture..."the dead in Christ shall rise first and we that remain..." The scriptural record of those times didn't mention when in relationship to Daniel. It became an issue many centuries later as has been mentioned. Whether it was by the Holy Spirit or not is up in the air. The whole thing could just be another distraction and means for factions. Just sayin'.

I am sorry that we are not communicating, wing. This all has become convoluted. I will respond to your post with scripture...and a wee question. 1Cor. 12:28 And God has 1aappointed in bthe church, first capostles, second dprophets, third eteachers, 1John 2:27 As for you, the aanointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing bteaches you about all things, It's is very clear that the Holy Spirit through Paul taught that God provides 'teachers' for the Church. Would God do so if it wasn't required. Does John contradict Paul? With these things in view--I have tried to understand some of your positions. BTW--I hope you don't think that I implied that anyone has 'all the knowledge'. That would be very silly. I am interested to hear what the Lord has taught you regarding end time prophecy.

Maybe we can clear this up, wing. Are you referring to my response in the screenshot below? If so--I was responding to his assertion of the difficulty of being sure of the meanings in 'these scriptures' meaning those that deal with the end such as Daniel, Joel, Zech and Revelation. I was not, just as I declared earlier, responding specifically to you pasting in Rev. 13. I explained my thoughts further along these lines in the following screenshot. Cut and pasted.. I understand that perfectly, it goes back to my reference to you earlier in regards to the body. A body is made up of many different parts, a hand cannot be a foot, a mouth cannot be an ear, etc. Since end time stuff is not your thing, do you suppose it is possible God has others to fill that role? And if your answer is yes, do you imagine He would want it shared with the other parts of the body so that they can do what I have been saying from the start here, and test it themselves against scripture? God bless Yes--I agree of course and said as much above. Yes--different members by necessity have different functions at different times as God will in the Church. If God wants a thing shared then there will be an anointing that has the power of the Holy Spirit behind it and it will surely perform what He intends. There are scriptures that tell us these things with clarity. 'Teaching' is no small thing within the context of the Church. Just one more point if you will bear with me. You mentioned above that you understand that relying on another man's understanding leads to cults. Of course this happens, but you say you share your understanding in hopes that folks will search and see that it is so. You are teaching. Folks may or may not receive your teaching and they may even form a 'cult' as a result. The above is just something to consider. I am not in any way declaring one way or the other. I deal in principles, as I have been taught and leave it to the Holy Spirit to turn on the light or create a thirst. Anyway---as to Rev. 13 and the meaning that you infer. I was not and am not giving an opinion on it. BTW--did I engage you or did you engage me? I think I responded to the other guy. Also--I have bee reading these end time threads because I sincerely wish to know what the saints are thinking about--especially regarding current events. I hope this helps. edited in to add. Wing---your bible commentary may be the future commentary just the same as those many sons before you have commented and you seem to reject to some extent. :-)

C'mon wingnut...seriously? There was a lot more in that post to agree to than that point. If I have an opinion as to the meaning of things relating to the end times, I will state it clearly. I have indicated that I simply don't know and make no attempt to communicate otherwise. You may notice that my responses on the forum have been almost totally within the realm of personal experience, the depth of God's work 'in Christ' and the realm of fundamental 'principles' taught in scripture and born out by common experience of the saints that can be applied to controversies of doctrine. There are some few things that the Lord has gone out of His way to make sure I understand--for His purposes, but end time stuff is not among them.

Yup--a discussion and I added some thoughts, just as you did.

I didn't touch any of those things you mention, wing. Of course all things are weighed with scripture in mind. I have known many individuals who were quite sure they were correct and also not alone. Do you see my point? The mark of a Christian is to realize the possibility of error. You may grouse to that comment and you could cite scriptures to prove me wrong, but it won't change the truth of the statement. As in most things spiritual--its a state of heart and mind that counts to our Father. I am not suggesting your certainty is wrong--only that it may be. Can you assent to the reality that many well meaning and honest seeking sons read the same scriptures and come to different conclusions all the while relying on 'God to be their guide'. These things all test us and that my friend is where the importance lies.

What you say is also true--however, one member cannot stand alone. That is contrary to the reality of the 'Body' that you mention. I suspect this is at the core of what Wordsmith was getting at, as well as the difficult nature of Daniel and Revelation in general. This is obvious as it is born out by the experience of so many sons over the years right up to today. Many were absolutely certain that the end was immediate back in the days of Jimmy Carter. Many are certain that they understand the players on the stage today. I very much doubt that they do. I am not sure exactly why this is, but it has been this way all of my life.

Well said---I have thought a time or two years ago, that I had some understanding of the scriptures mentioned--nowadays, that is not the case. I have read a great many ideas over the years from extra-biblical books and the commentators as I have a great many of them in my Accordance collection. Just as you say--there are lots of different interpretations expressed by hearts just as true as the next one who differs. The subject is beyond me because the Lord simply hasn't taught me about it as He has other things. I have been asking Him about that very thing, lately. Time will tell. :-)

It seemed to me that Shilohsfoal was thinking of Trump as the king of the north and I wanted to hear his thoughts on that. But, thanks for your thoughts, choir.

I was invited to comment, so I will. I don't think my thoughts are much different than others that have been expressed here, but one never knows for sure just how the Lord may be working. Folks who know their bibles are aware that there is a place for importunity in prayer. I think the Lord honors these prayers of the heart and yet we don't and can't fully realize their import as it relates to His will and His Working. We all seek to be aligned both in desire (will) and practical outworking with our Lord's will. Do we not? We were placed 'In Christ' and Christ was placed 'in us'. There is no doing of anything in and from our selves. The Father's entire focus is on Christ the Son. His work continues just as Luke taught us. He works through His Church and individuals. Our work is of no use to Him. It is Christ at work in and through us that is of Heavenly value. I say those things because, for me, all Truth and controversies need to square up with the fundamentals as opposed to designing a thought and then using scripture to bolster said thought. This is to be looked at as a positive declaration and not a negative one. Please don't think I mean otherwise. I am not referring to the request of the original poster. I am only articulating how I habitually look at things. Other than the 'importunity' mentioned above that our Lord put His stamp of approval on, I think that prayer is essentially 'agreeing with God'. Those prayers that have their origin from the Holy Spirit are God agreeing with God and that amazingly is accomplished through us vessels. You all know when your hearts cry out to Him when in a state of mind of worship and adoration (and more), that there is a certain sense of harmony of desire and purpose---when this is happening, you are aware that something very different is going on. Different in kind and essence than casual conversation. So getting to the point after walking around the barn for a while: :-) When we 'hasten' His coming and the establishment of His Kingdom on earth and all the stuff that goes along, we are in essence co-workers with our Father. Agreeing with Him and His Plan. The Spirit within us cries out to God. If we believe these things are true, how is it so important that we agree as to whether or not our prayer and assent are dynamic to affect a change in the timeline, when we are in agreement with Him? The Lord clearly instructs us to yearn for and ask for His return. "They Kingdom come and thy will be done" "Nevertheless, thy will be done". 1Cor. 3:9 For we are God’s afellow workers; you are God’s 1bfield, God’s cbuilding. 2Cor. 6:1 And aworking together with Him, bwe also urge you not to receive cthe grace of God in vain — 2Pet. 3:12 alooking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,

This is the way I see it. The last trumpet and a shout! I am not convinced as to how soon it is and whether we are that close to the end/beginning. I don't doubt it--I am not at all sure, though. I do hope so. Looking around everyday and listening to the news makes me 'mourn'. Strangely, that groaning within is a comfort. Not really strange to us believers, of course--but the natural man would think so. I can say with accuracy, I have never 'groaned' within, as I do lately. Praise the Lord for His Wisdom in all things.

Thank you. What are the other ancient texts and sources? Thanks, again. 8 again. I love that number. :-)

Could you explain more of this to me? Thank you.

Yes--of course you are right. My mistake. I should have recalled this. I was thinking of Jesus function as savior and Head of the Church. Brother and also Husband.

I am not sure that is a distinction with a difference, but I don't wish to debate it.

I believe that God elects individuals for a variety of purposes and has done so since Abraham. Before Abraham, But Abraham was the start of establishing a people that would put feet on a piece of land and hold it for God...thus He becomes the God of heaven and earth. Among many other things, the sons of God in the Church age, perform the same function spiritually. When God reigns in our hearts...the Kingdom extends from heaven to earth. This is important to our Father. Me thinks.

Psa. 71:3 aBe to me a rock of bhabitation to which I may continually come; You have given ccommandment to save me, For You are dmy 1rock and my fortress.

2Sam. 22:2 He said, “The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; 3 My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; My savior, You save me from violence.

In the beginning God

Logic is a tool of the mind God gave us and Jesus Christ the Logos is the 'rational reason' for all things. God is perfectly logical...this is true. For us it is the same as any other faculty that has limitations when brought to bear on the things of God. If the Lord is trying to teach us something that touches our own self-confidence or natural strength in order to make us 'weak' so that He may be 'strong' in and through us-- that thing needs to be let go. For some folks logic and innate organic intelligence may be such a thing at one time or another. At such times we might cry out as Abraham did in such circumstances, Gen. 17:18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!”